South Carolina Threatens To Secede From The Union If Confederate Flag is...

South Carolina Threatens To Secede From The Union If Confederate Flag is Removed

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South Carolina Threatens To Secede From Union If Confederate Flag is Removed

South Carolina – Nikki Haley, Governor of South Carolina, has announced that she is in support of removing the confederate flag from the state’s capitol grounds following the recent shooting that occurred in Charleston, South Carolina.

“Today, we are here to say it is time to move the flag from the Capitol grounds,” Nikki Haley said as she was heckled by onlookers of her speech.

Haley has supported the existence of the flag on capitol grounds in the past however recent events has prompted her to change her mind and focus on what is best for South Carolina. Charleston’s Mayor, Joseph P. Riley also believes the flag should be removed as it is part of history and should no longer represent the modernization of South Carolina.

“The time has come for the Confederate battle flag to move from a public position in front of the state Capitol to a place of history,” Charleston Mayor Joseph P. Riley said at a televised news conference. The flag “was appropriated years and years ago as a symbol of hate,” Riley said, and should be moved to a museum.

South Carolina Threatens To Secede From Union If Confederate Flag is Removed 2

Despite the Governor’s new position on the Confederate Flag, members of South Carolina’s House of Representatives believes the flag represents the culture of South Carolina and should not be removed because some people do not like to see it.

A petition has started within the House of Representatives for the state to secede from the United States if the confederate flag is removed. Those who defend the flag, including the Sons of Confederate Veterans, a social and political group in the South, insist the flag is a symbol of the state’s past and no longer carries the racist meaning.

According to Leland Summers, Commander of the Sons of Confederate Veterans, “There is absolutely no link between the Charleston massacre and the Confederate Memorial Banner. Don’t try to create one.”

The petition for South Carolina’s secession from the United States already has over 115,000 signatures since Haley’s announcement earlier today.

NEWSWATCH33.COM



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  • Katanon

    Bye, Felicia!

    • wkosak

      You’re an idiot

  • http://takefiveanytime.blogspot.com Tom Eggebeen

    That would be just fine … pull out all the military bases and withdraw all federal monies … invalidate all passports … close down the borders and grant asylum status to anyone who wants to flee the state. And anyone who wants to move there would have to surrender their passport and renounce their US citizenship.

    • William Prince

      Be okay with us too.

    • Logan

      Fine by me, I’m sure we’ll do fine.

      • http://jeffmcneill.com/ Jeff McNeill

        This is exactly what South Carolina deserves, good riddance ya bunch of ignorant rednecks.

        • Freddie

          Hey Jeff – don’t I remember you one time saying that we should be respectful of other people’s culture and tolerant of people who’s views are different from ours?

          • Caveman

            Freddie, he is a libtard – their arguments are free-flowing and factless. Libtards are more concerned with someone’s feelings than with actual facts or the ability to stand by a principle, no matter the outcome of said principle. What’s good for the goose is not good for the gander in these people’s minds

        • BlueMax372

          The joke’s on you, rectumhead.

        • Logan

          Right back at you, you bunch of damned Yankees.

    • BlueMax372

      SC is too far north for me, otherwise I’d be interested. If I ever do move from Florida, it’ll be to coastal Texas as Texas is the most likely to secede first from this failed socialist/Islamist union.

    • BlueMax372

      Oh, by the way, Tom, do some research. Florida for one gets back 97 cents for every dollar we send to your failed union in Washington. Wow! What a bargain! A U.S. passport is worthless nowadays ever since you elected the agitator to the White House.

  • Dana Taylor

    So, “The South” wants to get their asses kicked again?

    • J. Weaver

      What flag, symbols, or rights do you think they are coming after next genius?? This is about more than the Confederate Flag…. Cultural Genocide is being committed against our folk and don’t think for one minute that these communists won’t come after your freedom of speech one day if you have a different opinion than theirs. Did you not see them burning the American flag during the riots and etc..??

      • http://jeffmcneill.com/ Jeff McNeill

        “Our folk” “these communists” ” theirs” “them” you have already seceded from the human race, racist.

      • Sunny Georgia

        And then Dana Taylor ‘s ass will be kicked! LOL

      • GhostDogNY

        Roof was burning the American flag as well. What’s your point?

      • James Turner

        HEY WEAVER, WHAT YOU SAID IS VERY TRUE,BUT AIN`T IT FUNNY ALL THE IDIOT`S TALK ALL THEIR TRASH ABOUT THE SOUTH AND ALL THE RIOTING AND BURNING THEIR CITIES AND MOST OF ALL THE VIOLENCE IS IN THE NORTH,AND WHEN THE HELL HAVE YOU EVER SEEN OR HEARD A SOUTHERN SAY I THINK I`M GOING TO MOVE NORTH BUT LOOK AT WHERE ALL THE YANKS COME TOO…

    • Kenny Peacock

      By who? The Marxist Jews and Negros who run america? You are a typical delusional Liberal.

      • David Ward

        it all sounds good when you are jumping up and down with your panties in a wad. but Kenny, take a few minutes (it’s all you should need) to reflect on the demographic fluidity and transient nature of today’s south and tell me where you are going to garner your support for secession. Apart from the hillbillies in the trailer parks who have figured out how to live off squirrels and possum, who else you gonna get to fight your fight? You’d be hemmed in all around. Naval Blockade from Norfolk to Charleston as well as the Gulf Coast. Florida would not join the cause. You’d be finished in about a week. but maybe the 3rd time would be the charm. btw, SC is my homestate and I am a gun owning Gamecock through and through. I am also a business owner that understands that financials are what decides things, not pissed off rednecks who think because they have a Remington 870 in the back window and an extra box of shells rolling around the carpetless floor, the world is their B**tch.

        As much as you want it to be, it’s not your South anymore dude. Might want to educate your kids to that fact so they have a chance in the new world we all live in. Change or Perish…that law applies to EVERYTHING, not just business.

        • southrnprincess

          Please go away SPLC Jew shill.

          • https:// Shillteam6

            Lawl southern hicky is mad

          • David Ward

            oh look, it’s my favorite personal stalker again. well…2nd actually. the other one has better insults. whereabouts do you live in SC? i’m not looking for exact; just abouts. it may help me form a more correct impression of you. i want to be fair and all.

          • southrnprincess

            dont live in SC you weird stalker

          • David Ward

            Then stick to your own backyard sweetheart.

        • Nick James

          Speak for yourself. As a Northerner who sees that my country’s federal government and their many branches are owned by globalist fraudsters, I’d gladly join the South if they attempt secession, as would many of my fellow northerners. If you’re on the side of the federal govt at this point then you are either a slave, a fool, or bought and paid for. At least it’ll be easier fighting you serfs, as most of you spend your entire life bent over and staring at dirt.

          • David Ward

            im sorry. you lost me at a northerner who would glady join the south. how come you’re not down here yet? as for being bent over and staring at dirt…I’m a 50 year old who will be retired in 3 years with my kids colleges paid for by the time they get there and will leave florida to go back the home i still own and pay taxes on in the Columbia area. so you Yankee tool, i have a vested interest in making sure dollars come INTO south carolina NOT, go screaming out of there. I don’t give two sh**s about a damn piece of cloth blowing in the wind that impacts my life in any way but to the negative now. I have wealthy clients that use my insurance services, so i care more about keeping their business than i do sympathizing with a bunch of toothless possum eaters from rural parts of my homestate.

        • Kenny Peacock

          Are you a jew?

          • David Ward

            lol. i swear part of me wants to say yes just to see what you would say. Kenny, I’m up in Columbia about every 6 to 8 weeks. I would love to sit down and chat about the finer parts of SC heritage and politics over coffee with you. Maybe i could show you how keeping that piece of cloth blowing on the pole will damage this fine state (numbnuts nothwithstanding), more than help it in todays global economy. All your kind has to hold on to is that cloth, because you have let all other opportunities for self improvement pass you and yours by. it’s really very sad and if not you, then your offspring are going to have a very tough time surviving in this world of change. I may not like change, but at least i am humble enough to know that if i don’t make it work for me i will F’ng starve. You should adopt that mindset before it’s too late for you. And trust me, the Jews are lapping you on the track of life and success my friend. I wish you luck, but i’m afraid you wouldn’t know what to do with it.

    • William Prince

      Sorry, but this time we are not just farmers, there are gun manufacturers in the south, major military bases, and boeing. We have acsess to nuclear weapons. There would be no ass kicking not that that had happened the first time either, we were winning the first 3 years of the war.

      • David Ward

        let’s be clear. those military bases are Federal, not State. Florida would not participate in any secession and much Northrup Grumman as well as many many Federal defense contracts and their companies operate out of our space coast. I think you are a little off target. You would not have access to the nuclear weapons, and the fact is that any fight the south would put up today would be quashed in less than a week. because when you get down to the fluidity and transient nature of families in today’s South, no way you could garner the support. This ain’t Gone with the Wind my friend.

        • Liliana Kurpanik

          What makes you so sure FL wouldn’t participate in a secessionist movement? The part south of I-4 is very different from the northern part of the state. I’ve lived in S FL & now live in the northern part. We are much closer in culture to S GA than to S FL. Plus we got a huge Northrup facility in our county & a huge navel base in the next county.

          • David Ward

            because most of the population of the state and the concentration of wealth by people that don’t share the mindset of those just south of the GA/AL line exists below Tallahassee. And Liliana, that naval base is owned and operated by the US Federal Govt. Good luck convincing them to let you borrow it. by the way, I was born and raised in SC and have now lived in FL for over 25 years. half my life there, half my life here. and i can tell you unequivocally, that my folk in SC think of people from here, even the ones in Tallahassee and Gainesville in the same way they do Yankees. It blows my mind that anyone even thinks that secession is not only possible, but that they think it would even make it out of the starting gates. The ones who believe that are the ones that aren’t asked to participate in anything of significance. the ones that makes these decisions are real business owners with a lot to lose, not the guy that picks up a 6 pk of tall boys from the 7-11 on his way home from roofing. There is nothing wrong with their choice of employment, but the fact is that the people above making these comments are angry because they don’t have the wherewithal to effect change. Do you REALLY think those that run companies that make billions from federal govt defense contracts like Boeing and northrup are going to look to Tallahassee to replace those funds?????

            The South’s best and ONLY chance at secession was in 1861, when you could gain momentum through stealth because of lack of today’s communication tools. That horse was long ago put to pasture and he didn’t sire another.

            I mean come on….

    • cleburne61

      Mmm, yeah, it’s hard to believe that Southern folks wouldn’t want to stay in the union after hearing a comment like that, right?

    • BlueMax372

      Do you yanks really think you have the wherewithal, much less the will, to outlast the South financially again? Dream on.

      • David Ward

        huh???

    • Michael Byrd III

      It wont happen again we have more guns and people the the entire us military

      • https:// Shillteam6

        Yup your AR will sure hold up to an Abrams or Bradley. Idiot, what is with these hicks and their fetish to succeed?

      • David Ward

        Huh? Am I reading that right?

    • Mickey Mouse

      Won’t happen. THe north doesn’t have the slave spin to swell ranks. Plus manufacturing now is in the south. How much food does NY,Mass,DC,Penn and all those little states grow? Enough to feed all the people in those crammed little N.E.States? No. The South doesn’t need the North but the North needs the South and its resources.

      • David Ward

        so they don’t grow stuff in NE, KS, IA, ID, CA, WA etc.? And i can damn well guarantee you FL won’t join the mix. Trucks aren’t the only way to get their goods from there to the rest you know.

        • 1grayrebel

          Why don’t you shut the hell up?

          • David Ward

            because i am trying to edumacate some of you good folk. where’s the gratitude…dude? :)

          • 1grayrebel

            I am educated and I’m not your dude, dude! I live happily and enjoy life just like you do. I’m a Crimson Tider, gun lovin, snuff dipper just like you, but that’s where the similarities end. And just because people believe differently than you that makes them backwards?

          • David Ward

            Backwards, in my opinion only, because in fairness that is what it is, is holding on to something with a death grip, when all “normal” reason would suggest that the grip be loosened. I fear that people are not seeing the forest for the trees here. And that is dangerous. The impact this issue is going to have on the state I was born and raised in if not brought to a proper conclusion will be significant. I don’t think many of you are looking forward on this issue. I hear people say, it’s just a flag, why so much uproar? There was a secession attempt 150 years ago. It failed. Had it succeeded and that’s the new flag that became the symbol for the new statehood of the 13 that left successfully left, then we wouldn’t be here even talking about. But it did not succeed, the confederacy surrendered and we are a 50 state union, whether we like it or not. That is an extremely devicive symbol sitting on govt property which means that the SC govt, by flying it, rather than simply housing it as a exhibit

        • Marla Hughes

          I’m a 6th generation Florida native and I like the union just fine. I would have sided with the majority of the population (slaves outnumbered slavers) back then, too.

    • Sunny Georgia

      Keep reading – William Prince just kicked yours!

    • Cedric Freeman

      O boy. Another succession. I wonder what side I’ll be on. Well I certainly don’t look forward going back to the good ole days. Sign me up with the north.

      • southrnprincess

        Yeah have fun with the trannies and forced homosexuality on your 4 year old. Incest already legal up there and Vermont is planning to push “pedophilia” as a choice!

        Lol have fun!

        • David Ward

          I have come to believe that you are one of the more unenlightened people I have come across. Are you familiar with the law of large numbers and how it works? The amount of homosexuality and pedophilia is the same in the south as any other part of the country. The only difference is that one area hides it and the others don’t. Every time you comment, you do you credibility a massive disservice.

      • southrnprincess

        oh yeah and they’ve basically banned Christianity in all forms

    • Roger Smith

      Nah, the next time we will prevail !!!
      We just ran out of money and still came close to kicking your ass !!!!…..lmao

    • James Turner

      HERE WE GO AGAIN, YOU CAN`T FIX STUPID…STUPID!!!

    • 1grayrebel

      Why don’t you bring your little ass down here and do it?

    • Ryan

      The south inflicted 2:1 casualties. That’s not getting your ass kicked .

  • NAVORD

    Nikki Haley is a prime example of why I am cynical of politicians. In her 4 years as governor and during her campaign did she once bring up taking down the confederate flag? NO! She’s only pandering because she thinks it will help her in a national election if she runs for National Office.

    • NJK

      Mitt Romney, Karl Rove, Preibus, and others marched down there, and convinced her to do it, because they don’t know how to mind their own business.

    • gemcrae

      She needs to remember David Beasley

  • Joseph Thomas Bailey

    Where is the petition ? I and other want to sign….

    • Logan

      That’s what I was just thinking.

    • gemcrae

      Where is the petition where

  • Nicholas Massey

    We need secession asap anyway. flag or no flag. We need Secession because of TTP.

    • http://jeffmcneill.com/ Jeff McNeill

      I agree TPP is bad, but how did the South Carolina Senators vote? Graham and Scott = Yes and Yes. The problem isn’t the rest of the US, the problem is South Carolina. Lindsey Graham is one of the biggest idiots and you guys keep sending him back to the Senate!

      • NJK

        They have an open primary, which means Democrats/Communists can vote for Republicans. That’s who put him in.

  • Tony Roberts

    I am not for nor against its removal from the state capitol. What I am against is the how far we have gone in the PC ideology that makes me want to puke. It has gone so far I don’t know what I can even think anymore. The hypocrisy is by far the worst part of the problem than any other issue. What is preached by every liberal cause is tolerance but it seems the tolerance is only for their point of views. IF someone has a different view point they are called many things by those who say things like why all the hate or stop the hate. This seems to be their big thing until you ask them to be tolerant of your opposite opinion then they show utter hatred towards you and your opinions and you are called many things. Let me name a few things you are called if you do not agree with the lefts progressive viewpoints (those who once called them selves democrats and still vote that way; however want you to think they are progressive in their thinking) here are a few, “homophobic” if you do not agree to same sex marriage and stand for what you belive. Islamaphobes. if you put the word Islamic before the word terrorist, even though that is what they call themselves “ISIS”. well that is a couple to save time let me just tell you what I see. The left want you to believe that killing a puppy or a tiny bait fish is wrong buy killing millions of the unborn human species is ok. That stepping on the American flag that stands for freedom is ok but displaying it on your house is wrong. It is ok to have a black and Spanish history month and are proud you are one of those ethnicities but are a racist if you are proud to be white. If you are a gay you can refuse to bake a Christian cake but it you are a Christian and you refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding you are fined 150,000.00 dollars. It is ok to teach school children in school about the religion of Islam, but you cannot even mention to another student one thing about being a Christian. it is ok to make the rich pay more taxes because you are a member of an elite group who don’t pay any no matter what you make. But it is not ok to make a profit if you own a company unless your a member of that special group. If you come to this country illegally you can get free health care food stamps and housing assistance, but if you are a veteran of the military and have fought for your country you pay for health insurance you just had your retirement pay cut another 20% If you have children you still have to pay some out of pocket money for the hospital, and you get a big 1% pay raise every few years. They say you shouldn’t be allowed to carry a gun to protect yourself yet they have hired gunman to keep them safe. If you speak Spanish they have almost everything in Spanish and English on most all forms etc at gov offices, yet I do not see them in Chinese or German. So what I am saying is if I have to tolerate their BS they should have to tolerate my BS

    • Earl Rogerson

      Why Don’t You Fly This One As Well !

      • Anastasia Capuzzi

        Big difference

      • James Turner

        LIKE I SAID YOU CAN`T FIX STUPID..STUPID!!!

      • Dennis J

        earl can you name a part of what he said is not true

      • 1grayrebel

        You are one ignorant, pathetic POS!

      • OldNYFirefighter

        You sound like you might be one.

      • Veritas

        Really? How typical!

    • James Turner

      DAMN MAN NOW THAT WAS VERY WELL SAID AND STRAIGHT FORWARD AND I KNOW EXACTLY WHERE YOUR COMING FROM TOO..

      • David Ward

        I don’t think you know where anyone is coming from…or going. much less yourself.

        • Trace

          Wow lil David. You seem to want to skip around like a little girl and try to run all over everyone else’s posts and opinions. You aren’t impressing anyone. I’m pretty sure they see through your demeaning comments and notice your blatant insecurities. If you have an opinion? Express it. Don’t just show up and start attacking people with childish comments. Say your piece and be gone with you. It’s pathetic and sad that you really think anyone cares about what you have to say that you have to oppress every post on here. Such a waist. Get a life.

          Go pick up your legos before daddy steps on them..

  • Fred Potter

    The Southern Cross NEVER flew over a nation that supported slavery. It
    was the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, not a national
    flag. The United States flag flew over a nation that supported slavery
    for 85 years, yet no one is supporting removing it. Historians, real
    historians, not your 5th grade history teacher, have studied in detail
    the causes of the Civil War, and it wasn’t slavery. It was economics
    over an insanely rich South and poor Northern cities. The South
    was removing Slavery, it was a dead issue there due to English cotton
    contracts offering much higher prices than northern textile mills, and
    with those higher prices the condition that the cotton be raised without
    the use of slaves. The North could not have that life blood of cotton
    going to England, nor could it compete with the prices England was
    paying for the cotton. Even the Southern Generals, in particular Robert
    E. Lee, freed all their slaves by 1862, while the North still clung to
    slavery. Maryland and Delaware were immune to the Emancipation
    Proclamation as border states, and Delaware did not outlaw slavery until
    1872. The Emancipation Proclamation was hated in the North because the
    cities thought the freed slaves would move north and take all the
    textile mill jobs. All resources flowed from the South, cotton, iron,
    timber, etc., and that was making the Southern states rich beyond
    anything the North could compete with, Lincoln himself stated that he
    could not allow secession to proceed because “Who would pay for the
    government?” The history taught in our schools is based on the effort by
    Congress, Northern Industry and the Executive branch to devastate and
    punish the South to make sure they never again dared to try to secede
    and bankrupt the North, just as Sherman’s March was designed to do.
    Southern economics was moving beyond slavery fast, and southerners were
    used to living in mixed race areas and doing business together. Of
    course there were extremists, and in the power vacuum left by the War
    Between the States, those extremists in some cases managed to gain a
    foothold in a devastated, poverty stricken, post war south, much as the
    Nazi party did post WWI in Germany.

    • David Ward

      Mississippi didn’t share your views at the time of this declaration. As far as they were concerned, secession had everything to do with their “right” to protect their “property”. below is the verbage from the top of their declaration.below that is the link in it’s entirety. if you are interested of course. i’m sure you aren’t.

      “Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery– the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun.”

      http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp

      • kilee

        That’s Mississippi, not everyone had the same views, get that through your thick skull.

        • David Ward

          um, yeah. they did. I hail from SC, Gamecock through and through and have a pretty good understanding of it’s history. and based on your rather vague reply, feel it’s probably a bit more thorough than yours. Read up on Tillman and Calhoun and their positions on the matter and get back to me showing how they differed in their model from MS. I’m guessing you won’t bother since it might interfere with Maury Povich hour.

          • southrnprincess

            Piss off scalawag.

          • David Ward

            yup. that one pretty much had me taking cover. Good thing you spelled it wrong or i might have needed therapy from the insult. On the plus side, I never tire of a dumb blonde, as long as she’s mildly attractive, stalking me. makes this 50 year old fart feel good.

          • Trace

            Wow lil David. You seem to want to skip around like a little girl and try to run all over everyone else’s posts and opinions. You aren’t impressing anyone. I’m pretty sure they see through your demeaning comments and notice your blatant insecurities. If you have an opinion? Express it. Don’t just show up and start attacking people with childish comments. Say your piece and be gone with you. It’s pathetic and sad that you really think anyone cares about what you have to say that you have to oppress every post on here. Such a waist. Get a life.

            Go pick up your leggos before daddy steps on them…

          • Trace

            Wow lil David. You seem to want to skip around like a little girl and try to run all over everyone else’s posts and opinions. You aren’t impressing anyone. I’m pretty sure they see through your demeaning comments and notice your blatant insecurities. If you have an opinion? Express it. Don’t just show up and start attacking people with childish comments. Say your piece and be gone with you. It’s pathetic and sad that you really think anyone cares about what you have to say that you have to oppress every post on here. Such a waist. Get a life.

            Go pick up your leggos before daddy steps on them..

          • David Ward

            I see you learned how to use the copy and paste feature. Amazing how much time it saves to be able to just plop the same drivel here and there without having to retype it all huh? :)

          • That Dude

            are talking about Succession, or the after effects of Northern Aggression?

        • gemcrae

          I don’t give a Damn what Mississippi did

      • Bill Griggs

        South Carolina’s Succession Statement was mostly about slavery too.

        “The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. [*They are talking about runaway slaves. I only copied and pasted in the last half or so of the succession statement] The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.

        The ends for which the Constitution was framed are declared by itself to be “to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.”

        These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions. The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.

        We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.

        For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the forms of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that “Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free,” and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

        This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.

        On the 4th day of March next, this party will take possession of the Government. It has announced that the South shall be excluded from the common territory, that the judicial tribunals shall be made sectional, and that a war must be waged against slavery until it shall cease throughout the United States.

        The guaranties of the Constitution will then no longer exist; the equal rights of the States will be lost. The slaveholding States will no longer have the power of self-government, or self-protection, and the Federal Government will have become their enemy.

        Sectional interest and animosity will deepen the irritation, and all hope of remedy is rendered vain, by the fact that public opinion at the North has invested a great political error with the sanction of more erroneous religious belief.

        We, therefore, the People of South Carolina, by our delegates in Convention assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, have solemnly declared that the Union heretofore existing between this State and the other States of North America, is dissolved, and that the State of South Carolina has resumed her position among the nations of the world, as a separate and independent State; with full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent States may of right do.”

        • Faik Fasebuk

          “If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it” — Abraham Lincoln

          • David Ward

            it sure would have been a ton easier for him.

          • Dan

            How many people did you think you would impress with that quote taken out of context? That quote is taken from a letter written by Abraham Lincoln to Horace Greeley. In that letter he stated that his concern was not of slavery, but of saving the Union. He wanted to end the Civil War as quickly as possible and return peace. If you want to complain about a flag that’s fine. But do not take it out on one of the greatest Presidents in history.
            The letter written by Lincoln:
            http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/greeley.htm

          • 2197_uxo_1

            He offered to the state of South Carolina to let them keep the slaves if they stayed in the union, they seceded, doesn’t that tell you anything

          • mjnewt0n

            out of context…post the whole quote… “My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not
            either to save or destroy Slavery. If I could save the Union without
            freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all
            the slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing some and
            leaving others alone, I would also do that” -A. Lincoln

          • Steve Stratton

            Lincoln also promoted the removal of all blacks to western lands like Jackson did with American Indians. When he couldn’t get support for that he advocated for deportation to Africa or South America. He did manage to get thousands from Maryland and Delaware to immigrate to Liberia.

          • Rich Haas

            Exactly Lincoln could careless about the institution of slavery, he was worried about the economics of the north, and keeping the union healthy! Ergo the Civil War was not about slavery as a primary cause as wealth was, slavery was a secondary cause!

          • Democratic_Thinker

            Actually, from the South side , it was all about slavery.That is what started the war…of secession. In response, the Union fought to stop the rebellion and maintain the country as a single nation. Lincoln personally did not like slavery but the key issue was to not allow the secession.

          • Patricia Adams

            Exactly. Lincoln said many things about slavery, and many things about preserving the Union. To present one quote, out of context, as if it characterized his beliefs on the topic, do a disservice to the man, and to the issue.

          • Vassie Welbeck-Browne

            Since slavery was the back-bone of the South’s economy, I would say that slavery was the primary reason.

          • Vassie Welbeck-Browne

            : Additionally, the core states who left the union all gave continuing slavery as the reason for leaving!

          • Rich Haas

            Top Five Causes of the Civil War

            1. Economic and social differences between the North and the South.
            2. States versus federal rights.
            3. The fight between Slave and Non-Slave State Proponents.
            4. Growth of the Abolition Movement.
            5. The election of a Democratic President.

            And these are listed in order of importance!

            Surprisingly,
            to many history impaired individuals, most Union Generals and staff had
            slaves to serve them! William T. Sherman had many slaves that served
            him until well after the war was over and did not free them until late
            in 1865.

            U.S.
            Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th
            amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn’t free his slaves
            earlier, Grant stated “Good help is so hard to come by these days.”

            Contrarily, Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased – they were inherited) in 1862!!! Lee freed his slaves several years before the war was over, and considerably earlier than his Northern counterparts. And during the fierce early days of the war when the South was obliterating the Yankee armies!

            Lastly, and most importantly, why did NORTHERN States outlaw slavery only AFTER the war was over? The so-called “Emancipation Proclamation” of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the SOUTH! NOT
            in the North! This persnickety even went so far as to find the state
            of Delaware rejecting the 13th Amendment in December of 1865 and did not
            ratify it (13th Amendment / free the slaves) until 1901!

            How many presidents owned slaves? Eight of the thirteen were Democrats.

            1. George Washington
            3. Thomas Jefferson D
            4. James Madison D
            5 . James Monroe D
            7. Andrew Jackson D
            8. Martin Van Buren D
            9. William Henry Harrison
            10. John Tyler
            11. James K. Polk D
            12. Zachary Taylor
            15. James Buchanan D
            17. Andrew Johnson D
            18. Ulysses S. Grant

          • JoseCuervo

            You do realize that Democrats and republicans of that day are not the same as they are today right? Lincoln would be a Liberal conservative these days. Gee , freeing slaves.. what can be more liberal than that?

          • AmateurEditor

            Top Five Causes of The Civil War
            1) Slavery
            2) Slavery
            3) Slavery
            4) Slavery
            5) Slavery

            There, fixed the list for you.

          • Rich Haas

            Now I could really see you holding your breath until you turned blue and stomping your feet, while typing this immature mindless “I know you are but what am I” response! Does Mommy know you use her computer??

          • Rev. Mitchell

            You are historically inaccurate about Lincoln’s deep aversion and hatred of the institution of slavery. Why do you think the South seceded, prior to Lincoln being sworn in? Before any shots were fired. Before any anti-slavery legislation was proffered. Before any armies were raised. Before any change in the tariffs were made. What is it that prompted them to secede? I submit, and history, not your unenlightened ‘opinion’ supports, that the South feared Lincoln, precisely because of his anti-slavery rhetoric, rhetoric by the way, that got him noticed by his party, and selected as their candidate. Rhetoric that ultimately got him killed, as a bumbling kidnapping plot by Booth et al turned to a murder plan, when Lincoln made a speech proposing Negro enfranchisement (look it up). No Rich, history is at odds with your ‘learned’ opinion. Facts is stubborn things!

          • Rich Haas

            My post was in response to the posts below, and was a quote from Abe himself Not an opinion piece like yours full of want it that ways,and go ahead and look it ups!

            Faik Fasebuk Bill Griggs 7 days ago

            “If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it” — Abraham Lincoln

            mjnewt0n FaikFasebuk 4 days ago

            out of context…post the whole quote… “My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not
            either to save or destroy Slavery. If I could save the Union without
            freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all
            the slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing some and
            leaving others alone, I would also do that” -A.Lincoln

            What part of the post do you not understand??

            Top Five Causes of the Civil War

            1. Economic and social differences between the North and the South.
            2. States versus federal rights.
            3. The fight between Slave and Non-Slave State Proponents.
            4. Growth of the Abolition Movement.
            5. The election of a Republican President.

            And these are listed in order of importance.

            How many presidents owned slaves?
            1. George Washington
            3. Thomas Jefferson D
            4. James Madison D (a)
            5 . James Monroe D
            7. Andrew Jackson D
            8. Martin Van Buren D(b)
            9. William Henry Harrison
            10. John Tyler
            11. James K. Polk D
            12. Zachary Taylor
            15. James Buchanan D(c)
            17. Andrew Johnson D
            18. Ulysses S. Grant

            Surprisingly,
            to many history impaired individuals, most Union Generals and staff had
            slaves to serve them! William T. Sherman had many slaves that served
            him until well after the war was over and did not free them until late
            in 1865.

            U.S.
            Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th
            amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn’t free his slaves
            earlier, Grant stated “Good help is so hard to come by these days.”

            Contrarily, Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased – they were inherited) in 1862!!! Lee freed his slaves several years before the war was over, and considerably earlier than his Northern counterparts. And during the fierce early days of the war when the South was obliterating the Yankee armies!

            Lastly, and most importantly, why did NORTHERN States outlaw slavery only AFTER the war was over? The so-called “Emancipation Proclamation” of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the SOUTH! NOT
            in the North! This persnickety even went so far as to find the state
            of Delaware rejecting the 13th Amendment in December of 1865 and did not
            ratify it (13th Amendment / free the slaves) until 1901!

          • Rev. Mitchell

            I post the entire text again for your edification. Please pay particular attention to Lincoln’s final sentiments. History is not what you want it to be…..it is what it was!

            Hon. Horace Greeley:
            Dear Sir.

            I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions of fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here, controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against them. If there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.

            As to the policy I “seem to be pursuing” as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.

            I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be “the Union as it was.” If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.

            I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.

            Yours,
            A. Lincoln.

          • Rich Haas

            What could be better proof of my position than your own post of a letter from Abe himself!

            ” My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not
            either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without
            freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all
            the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and
            leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and
            the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and
            what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to
            save the Union.”

          • JoseCuervo

            Right right

          • Rich Haas

            Now…I…Will…Explain…This…Once…More…Slowly…For…The…Reading…
            Impaired! I…Was…Responding…To…The…Below…Posts…ABOUT…
            PRESIDENT…LINCOLN’S…MAJOR…REASON…FOR…STARTING…THE…
            CIVIL…WAR!!!!

            Faik Fasebuk Bill Griggs 7 days ago

            “If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it” — Abraham Lincoln

            mjnewt0n Faik Fasebuk 4 days ago

            out of context…post the whole quote… “My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or destroy Slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that” -A. Lincoln

            Rich Haas mjnewt0n 4 days ago

            Exactly Lincoln could careless about the institution of slavery, he
            was worried about the economics of the north, and keeping the union healthy! Ergo the Civil War was not about slavery as a primary cause as wealth was, slavery was a secondary cause!

            Then there is another Genius that sent Abe’s full letter as proof that he was all about freeing the slaves!

            Hon. Horace Greeley:
            Dear Sir.

            I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the
            New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions of fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here,
            controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against them. If there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.

            As to the policy I “seem to be pursuing” as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.

            I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the
            Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be “the Union as it was.” If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.

            I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.

            Yours,
            A. Lincoln.

            Unfortunately he was reading impaired as well!

            ” My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all The slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and not what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.”

          • That Dude

            1860 Republican presidential nomination

            “The Rail Candidate”—Lincoln’s 1860 candidacy is depicted as held up by the slavery issue—a slave on the left and party organization on the right.

            The Republican Party was committed to restricting the growth of slavery, and its victory in the election of 1860 was the trigger for secession acts by Southern states. The debate before 1860 was mainly focused on the Western territories, especially Kansas and the popular sovereignty controversy.

            Lincoln was nominated as the Republican candidate for president in the election of 1860. Lincoln was opposed to the expansion of slavery, but held that the federal government was prevented by the Constitution from banning slavery in states where it already existed. His plan was to halt the spread of slavery, and to offer monetary compensation to slave-owners in states that agreed to end slavery (see Compensated emancipation). He was considered a moderate within his party, as there were some who wanted the immediate abolition of slavery.

          • Ldg Deadgirl

            well that pretty much says it all he could have cared less about black lives he just worried about saving the union

          • http://www.pominspectionga.com Jerry Emery

            Read his quotes, he advocated segregation perpetually. He was no great friend of the black race. He just did what was necessary at the time.

          • Democratic_Thinker

            At the time, sadly, most people were ignorant of how much we all have in common and thought races of people were inherently different and judged them by their standards of what was a more “advanced or civilized culture” …not understanding the languages, customs or history or complexity of different cultures. They did not often see how they could integrate into a predominantly European backgrounded culture..(stiil dealing with differences from different countries ). Bringing people in as slaves and keeping them uneducated in terms of reading and writing in English etc. reinforced that stereotype of “less advanced” as a race…but this did not mean that people like Lincoln did not recognize the injustice of slavery.

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            Who Cares, the slaves were freed, whether that was the true intention or not, The confederacy attempted to secede from the union and they lost the war, along with the right to fly that flag over gvt bldgs, or should we put up England’s flag (they also lost) or a native american flag ( they were almost exterminated) to honor their history & heritage? hey we took Texas from Mexico… Maybe we should fly their flag too.

          • Rev. Mitchell

            I’ll bet you don’t know where that quote was culled from, do you? And, you have taken an excerpt from a larger text. Lincoln goes on in that letter to restate is utter aversion to human bondage. That’s the problem when people quote snippets, instead of full text.

          • JoseCuervo

            lets add context

            “I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of
            bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live,while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything” Abraham Lincoln, 4th Lincoln-Douglas debate, September 18th, 1858

          • JSebastian

            Yep. Lincoln was really a huge racist- or least that is what anyone who believed as he did would be called today. “White Supremacist”, to be specific. He wrote many times and said many times in speeches that he believed blacks were inferior beings and did not merit social or political equality with whites.

            To his credit though, he realized that America would be better off without the slaves in the country and he tried to repatriate them all. It really is a shame that he failed; look at all the problems their descendants have caused since for Americans. All the crimes, all the human suffering. And also look at how the blacks themselves have suffered as a people. Constantly yearning for Africa – calling themselves “African- American”, trying to work the African tribal culture into their experiences in modern America and seeing how that doesn’t work. 20% of their young men are in prisons. They are truly a people who were set adrift from their rightful homeland and culture, which is very sad and shouldn’t happen to anyone.

            All that could have been avoided though, or at least remedied or mitigated, had the mistake of slavery just been undone and all of the slaves safely returned to their homelands.

            So Lincoln was a very flawed man – at least viewed through a modern lens, but I think his ideas for repatriation to Africa showed that he had at least some sense of the injustice of bringing people out of their lands and into a place where they didn’t belong, and it moved him to try to do something about it.

          • http://www.pominspectionga.com Jerry Emery

            This may be the most informed comment that I’ve read in quite a while.

          • kduke

            Except it has nothing to do with the issue of the flag as a modern hate symbol.

          • http://www.pominspectionga.com Jerry Emery

            All right, let’s talk about modern hate symbols using your logic. 1)Old Glory – flew over the legal disembarkation points of at least 10.7 million African slaves. Then let’s talk about the American native population. Estimates of 80 – 100 million are probably a bit high and more fitting for the entire western Hemisphere. 18 million is the more recent estimate for the USA which may be closer. Regardless, that number was reduced to about 6 million due to the genocide perpetuated by settlers and military under the Stars and Stripes. Let’s not forget Asian railway workers Treated as subhuman and denied naturalization, many suffered and died in poverty, and accurate numbers are impossible to determine. Now let’s look at the Mexican heritage of the southwest, where land grants and settling families, along with farm laborers, that had been in place since the days of of the Spanish vice-royalties, were thrown to the winds, when the territories were acquired by the US, leading many more to poverty, ruin, and death, including those who refused to leave and that found themselves in shallow desert graves. 2) The Rainbow flag (or other variations) – flies in honor of the LGBT community. This community, while many are simply trying to live normal lives, is militaristic in its actions. Their actions of intolerance and those of their supporters have been well displayed in attempts to ruin livelihoods and professional lives of those who demonstrate any disagreement with their positions. 3) Variations of Confederate flags, including the battle flag – A flag flown by many of those of Southern US heritage, in honor of their fallen ancestors. While it can be argued that the flying of the flag is used predominately as a symbol of hate towards other ethnic groups, it would be no less than the displays of other banners whose followers have used hate tactics against others.

            Now, lastly, I didn’t see anyone appoint you to be the moderator of the thread, so shove it.

          • mothyham

            but but but,,,,he’s uncle abe, the great white of the black man.

          • JosephineSouthern

            However, the South did not agree with lincoln’s plan to move all the slaves out of America. Instead, they wanted to be allowed to give them opportunities in the new states and territories in America; Lincoln instead promised the other states to keep the 4 MILLION slaves bottled up in the South, and made a war of invasion and takeover against his neighbors.

          • David Ward

            If you had the power to snap your fingers and all the blacks in this country would be instantly teleported back to africa, with the money each would have from the sale of whatever their personal estate is at the time in their hand, and enough food and clothing to last the first couple months, would you?

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            David Ward If You could snap Your fingers, go back in time and send all whites back to Europe (before they came to the colonies) Then we wouldn’t have had a slavery problem in the US, and Native Americans wouldn’t have nearly been exterminated. my goodness where do you guys come up with this crap?

          • David Ward

            We are actually on the same page. My question was posted to him that way, because he seems to be contradicting himself when it comes to his racial tolerance. I wanted to see how he answered that. He hasnt.

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            my fault. Sorry

          • David Ward

            No worries.

          • JSebastian

            You mean do I think that all other Americans would probably be better off if that were the case? If that’s the question, then yes.

            But if you’re asking if I would feel comfortable with that decision in being able to firmly and honestly say that I believe it is the right thing to do, I would have to answer No, because they’re here and they’ve been here and we’re stuck with this history. When Lincoln was struggling with this issue, it was far more recent. You can correct something when its relatively fresh. There’s an immediate nexus. Now, not so much.

            I definitely wouldn’t be able to look my black friends and coworkers in the eye and tell them I think I am morally justified in pitching them back to their ancestral homeland.

            Also remember that you’re now talking about 45M people, and not just the 4M that would have been sent back under Lincoln’s Liberia plan. Completely different scale and context to repatriation.

          • jai

            And today we have a president in the White House who descends, not from African Americans, but from the Arab slave dealers who kidnapped African children to be sold to America. He stole the African American experience and used it to steal the presidency then to enslave African Americans to government dependence. Black Americans should hate him.

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            Yeah and Native Americans would have flourished, if whites had gone back to where they came from. Unbelievable crap. Bottomline The confederacy attempted to secede from the union and they lost the war, along with the right to fly that flag over gvt bldgs. Should we put up England’s flag (they also lost) or a native american flag? ( they were almost exterminated) to honor their history & heritage? hey we took Texas from Mexico… Maybe we should fly their flag too.

          • That Dude

            Need to come up for air a lil” more often their Cup cake.IT is about States or what actually should be called, Nation rights. Heck, if the one of the great New England States wants to fly the “Union Jack” will , let them. Texas and California, if you wanna run the flag of those you beat, that by the way being foreign as well, Go the heck ahead I don’t care, as IT is a STATES right to do as they see fit. I don’t live in South Carolina, therefore I , honestly have no say in what they do. So, unless, you, are a South Carolinian, stay out of it.

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            I got your cupcake my man! (oh and it”s there not their) So if a state decides to bring back Jim Crow (or slavery) Is it still STATES’ RIGHT to do as they see fit? Check the history books that’s part of the reason why the civil war was fought in the first place…BTW There are plenty of people in SC that want the flag gone, including the Governor. It’s the UNITED STATES each state is a part of the whole. If you were around back then they would be another county, Afte rall it’s the state’s right to do whatever they want.

          • JSebastian

            Yeah and Native Americans would have flourished, if whites had gone back to where they came from.

            There isn’t any evidence to support this assertion. By flourished, what do you mean, exactly? That they would have muddled on with their internecine brutal warfare and primitive civilization, becoming even more of an anomaly in the modern world? The rest of the world modernized, and the Indians running around killing each other with spears and bows and arrows. Yes, that sounds great.

            The truth is had colonists from Europe not come, colonists from some other place would have. The result would have largely been the same.

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            But He couldn’t save the Union without freeing the slaves, could he? The confederacy attempted to secede and they lost the war, along with the right to fly that flag over gvt bldgs, or should we put England’s flag (they also lost) or a native american flag ( they were almost exterminated) to honor their history & heritage?

          • batman

            You are so repetitious and inaccurate

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            Exactly what am I repeating? and what is inaccurate?

        • Steve

          The American flag was proudly flying when the American Indians were almost erased from this earth, should we get rid of it as well? History is history, over and done time to move on. Taking away the flag won’t change a thing we live and learn. Some people will never let it go even without the flag.

          • SandyT

            Louis Farrakhan has already said the American flag should be taken down. Give the left an inch and they want a mile. Since Nikki Haley caved, now they are going after other states and demanding not only the removal of the Confederate flag, they want all vestiges of the Confederacy removed…the statue of Robert E. Lee from New Orleans, the Stone Mt. mural in GA, etc. What next? They will never be satisfied, until all whites are gone.

          • David Ward

            Wierd how that must feel huh?

          • SandyT

            Since you have criticized others on their spelling, perhaps you should learn to spell “weird”.

          • David Ward

            Perhaps. I tend not to generally criticize much because I realize that most of us post from smart phones these days and we all know how that works. That said, when I see posts that are rampant with them, and it is clear from the content that they are not adding anything of substance to the conversation, it’s hard not to point it out because it does undermine the credibilty of their position. And when I say lack of substance, I’m not referring to an opinion that differs from mine, I’m referring to those that clearly have done zero research and are obviously simply parroting the thoughts of others. And when they do that with zeal, it’s tough not to have it get under your skin.

          • Samantha LeShain

            You do realize you can research things right from your phone sweetheart? && that just because you have a cell phone it doesn’t mean you don’t keep up with world affairs otherwise… And why does someone’s opinion being different from yours ruin your life so bad? You do realize that other people have their very own brains as well right?

          • Faith

            Rule: I before e, except after c

          • SandyT

            Yes, it is i before e, except after c, but there are exceptions, such as:
            weird
            wird/
            adjective
            1.
            suggesting something supernatural; uncanny.
            “the weird crying of a seal”
            synonyms:uncanny, eerie, unnatural, supernatural, unearthly, otherworldly,ghostly, mysterious, strange, abnormal, unusual; More

            noun
            SCOTTISHarchaic
            1.
            a person’s destiny.
            verb
            NORTH AMERICANinformal
            1.
            induce a sense of disbelief or alienation in someone.

            Anything else to say, Faith?

          • Faith

            No, actually I don’t. LOL. This discussion has taken enough seconds from my life. ?

          • SandyT

            Look before you leap next time.

          • Faith

            Ha Ha Ha, Yeah, good idea – now back to living my very real life………one that is not consumed and filled with online discussions. Oh, let me add a “you were right” so we can put a period on this one. Have a marvelous day!!!!

          • Samantha LeShain

            Amen

          • Samantha LeShain

            Omg its so sad, you have no life… Are there no positions for grammar police in the work force these days? Oh that’s right, no one has EVER NEEDED THEM FOR ANYTHING!!

          • SandyT

            Actually, I was paid to be a spelling and grammar policewoman for about four years a long time ago, as a proofreader. That was over 40 years ago, but it still bugs me when I see such obvious errors. I wouldn’t have said anything to David about it, if he hadn’t been critical of my first comment. Yes, I do make mistakes, too, as do we all.

          • brian1248

            Exceptions to the so-called “i before e except after c” rule (this is not a complete list–some show e before i when not after c, and some show i before e even after c, which are two different ways to violate the rule):

            beige, caffeine, casein, cleidoic, codeine, conscience, deify, deity, deign, dreidel, eider, eight, either, feign, feint, feisty, foreign, forfeit, freight, geisha, gleization, gneiss, greige, greisen, hacienda, heifer, heigh-ho, height, heinous, heir, heist, inveigle, keister. leisure, leitmotiv, neigh, neighbor, neither, obeisance, peignoir, prescient, protein, rein, science, seiche, seidel, seine, seismic, seize, sheik, society sovereign, specie, species, surfeit, veil, vein, weight, weir, weird

            and all words ending in -cy when pluralized or modified in tense, such as “fancy”, which becomes “fancies”, (likewise with “fallacies”, “frequencies”, “vacancies”, etc.)

            In fact, modern lexicographers have speculated that the rule may actually have more exceptions than words that fit the rule unless the rule is made more needlessly complicated.

            Could you possibly be more wrong about applying a rule that has more exceptions than words that adhere to it?

          • Faith

            Only in my thinking that people don’t take these comments seriously, obviously some do. ?

          • Samantha LeShain

            Wow. It’s kinda intriguing, but I’m beginning to think if you’re not one of the type that would actually argue with a stop sign! Very, very annoying, but very persistent, I suppose.

          • brian1248

            I argued regarding the invalidity of the “i before e” rule because the person before me had brought it up (about the word “weird” to which it was inapplicable to begin with, even it it were a valid rule). If you have more than the attention span of a gnat, and had read any of the responses before mine, you would have noted that I am not the one who started the discussion off the topic from the confederate flag. I was merely shooting someone down that did.

          • Redteam

            and when it has an a sound as in weigh,, neighbor, etc

          • Samantha LeShain

            He probably i could except that his spelling && vocabulary list ran out of words…. Poor fellow…

          • SouthernSiNN

            You’re an IDIOT!!! OMG,…really,..did you just TRY an correct someone, that corrected someone else, for spelling a word WRONG?? Ughh,..you and people like you, are a HUGE problem in this world. YES, the rule generally is, “i” before “e” except after c,..but as you see I use the word “generally”,..this is NOT rule for ALL words that have “I” and “E” in them….ugh. You should of done yourself justice just by acctually going to your browser and TRY typing in the word to actually get the correct, and true spelling,..and you would of found out that the true CORRECT spelling is just what she corrected him with “WEIRD” . No “I” before “E”, in this instance, does NOT apply. So Faith,..you’re the IDIOT, that should of just said nothing,…..instead….you were trying to support, and back a poster that shares your same point of view on the issue of this story,………so you TRIED to back his post up, and FAILED miserably! Always EDUCATE yourself, before you THINK you can educate anyone else.

          • Samantha LeShain

            Agreed…

          • mothyham

            David Ward people like you will live lives of regret

          • David Ward

            I haven’t in my first 50 years :)

          • kduke

            Mothyham, people like you live lives of anonymity. Because you are too chicken to even use a name for your silly posts.
            Which is actually pretty smart. I wouldn’t want my name on your BS.

          • JoseCuervo

            You complain about his name yet.. kduke? Hypocrisy abounds.

          • David Arnold

            Yeah, the idiots with no real knowledge outnumber us. We regret that.

          • JoseCuervo

            the South wanted to get rid of the US Constitution. and secede from the US of A.. a treasonous act.

          • ikihi

            the south was the democrat party

          • jamann1

            It was not treasonous, and they were standing up for the Constitution. They did not believe the federal government had the power to meddle in States’ rights.

            They did declare independence, just as the United States declared independence from England. The war was fought over that. The United States invaded the CSA, and the CSA was fighting because there was a foreign army that had invaded their home.

          • Red Brixton

            The problem with your “theory” is that the Confederacy did NOT adopt the U.S. Constitution as their own. Instead they adopted something like the Articles of Confederation (hence the “Confederacy” in the name).

          • jamann1

            It’s a fact. The Southern states were standing up for the Constitution because they felt that the federal government was violating it. That’s when they split from the union and started their own government.

          • Kristian N.

            They would have had to create their own constitution anyway, as a separate entity of the States. In fact, parts of the Constitution suppprt secession and disbanding current government where a majority or much of the population feel their rights or liberties are being ebroached on by the Government. Treason is selling your country out for persobal benefit. There can be no Treason where the Constitution its self stipulates it as a States choice to and free will to determine how it is Governed or if it is a state at all. People had to vote for states to becone states in the beginning. They will vote themselves out of Statehood if they believe strongly enough that it is the right path for their State.

          • angf117

            no dumbass…its NOT treasonous…

          • Ernest Blackwell

            Just like the Colonials wanted to get rid of their King and form a new nation? What are you saying, that treason is ok as long as you win?

          • Tomfom

            Are you freaking kidding me? Success is all that matters. Whether something is okay or not is for the man with the gun and a beating heart to decide. The victor demonizes the loser and 200+ years later, you’re swallowing it just like you’re suppose to. The people who won, good guys, the losers, racist hillbillies with no class. Treason is just another word for loss of control. No morality is attached to it other than what the people in control want it to have.

          • http://kristinapitts.blogspot.com/2015/05/you-dont-have-stalker-get-over-yourself.html Kristina Pitts

            Are you aware that this entire country, the good old US of A, was founded by committing treason?

          • mothyham

            No son, you’re raising a generation of pussies and teaching them to dumb down a few levels. You will regret this in your old age….I promise.

          • Samantha LeShain

            How do you know how much knowledge they may or may not have? We can see how busy you are on your learning, lol, you’re too busy being judgemental && self absorbed…

          • batman

            When hell freezes

          • Leading with the truth

            Nobody gives a rats ass what Farrakhan says except you

          • SandyT

            Perhaps, you should start “giving a rats ass” what Farrakhan says. He is calling for the removal of the American flag. Maybe you should wake up and take notice of things happening around you before it’s too late. Of course, if you’re on his wave length, maybe you would like to see the flag removed. Are you a member of the Nation of Islam or ISIS?

          • Leading with the truth

            Grow a brain Sandy. Lunatics like Farrakhan say outrageous things for attention just like Limbaugh who used it as his schtick the other day.

          • SandyT

            I know that, LWTT. That’s not the point. Give the left an inch and they want a mile. Haley caved on the flag, now the statues and monuments across the country have been targeted. What’s next?

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            Funny, I am used to hearing give blacks an inch,and they’ll want a mile. how about this? Give one man freedom and soon they’ll all want freedom. The confederacy attempted to secede from the union and they lost the war, along with the right to fly that flag over gvt bldgs, or should we put up England’s flag (they also lost) or a native american flag ( they were almost exterminated) to honor their history & heritage? hey we took Texas from Mexico… Maybe we should fly their flag too.

          • Ray
          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            so some blacks were stupid enough to fight for the confederacy, not sure what that is suppose to prove

          • Thomas Joseph Leach

            Once again read your history Crack a book GD… BLACKS AND ALSO WHITES WORKED OFF AN 8 YEAR TARRIF TO EARN THERE FREEDOM… BIRMINGHAM, AL WAS 45% FREE’D SLAVES IN 1849 NEW ORLEANS, LA WAS 65% FREE’D SLAVES IN 1827…

          • jamann1

            We did not take Texas from Mexico. Texas fought a war of independence, without help from the United States, and won on their own. The Republic of Texas, an independent country, existed for many years before they joined the United States. Read a history book.

          • angf117

            yepper emanuel obviously doesnt know his history

          • angf117

            who cares what fags think?

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            Fag? thats pretty damn funny,that you would assume that since you don’t know me. But If I would guess that even less people would care what an asswipe like you would think.

          • Thomas Joseph Leach

            NO ONE TO OK TEXAS FROM MEXICO.. TEXAS ONE THAT ON IT’S OWN. .. SAM HOUSTON SOLD TEXAS 10 YEAR’S AFTER THEY BE AT MEXICO. .. TRY AGAIN

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            Mexico controlled the territory until 1836 whenTexas won its independence, becoming an independent Republic. In 1845, Texas joined the United States as the 28th state. Thestate’s annexation set off a chain of events that caused the Mexican–American War in 1846.

          • Thomas Joseph Leach

            DUMB AZZ I’M FROM TEXAS. .. WE WE’RE OUR OWN COUNTRY BEFORE WE MADE THE MISTAKE TO JOIN THE USA.. FYI THE MEXICAN AMERICAN WAR WAS FOUGHT BECAUSE WE JOINED THE USA… WE KICK SANTA ANA’S AZZ WAY BEFORE THAT.

          • Thomas Joseph Leach

            THE USA DIDN’T WHEN OUR FREEDOM. I’M FROM TEXAS. WE WON OUR FREEDOM

          • Thomas Joseph Leach

            Unlike most states we don’t need the U S

          • kduke

            I hope better schooling and Church that emphasizes using the brain God gave you for something other than to keep your head from collapsing is next.

          • kduke

            “Until all whites are gone…”
            So to you, “the left” is only colored people?

            Or is it more that you consider “the left” to not be described as white people?

            Your sheet is showing.

          • SandyT

            No, dear, I don’t consider the left to be just white or black or purple polka dotted. I don’t care what color anyone is, if they are trying to subvert the Constitution and take freedom away from all of us, I don’t like it. All of us, black and white, yellow, red, whatever.
            BTW, funny Emanuel should mention Native Americans, they were almost exterminated, but they too, are proud of their HERITAGE, as are we Southerners. If you can’t understand that, then it’s your loss, not mine. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. I have no “sheet”, kduke. The KKK was a Democrat organization, not Republican and I have NEVER been a damn Democrat and will never be!

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            Hate to break it to you,The modern kkk are primarily Republican and the group backs Republican candidates (wonder why that is?) Oh and Sandy There are a great many Blacks who are southerners, who are just as proud as you of their heritage ,but they find that flag filled with HATE, don’t they count? One more thing yes native americans are proud of their heritage… and you can see that in plenty of museums, (which is where the confederate flag belongs) But they aren’t screaming that the their native flag should be flying over gvt buildings. BTW taking the flag down subverts the constitution REAL
            LY???

          • Diane Bolles

            Actually KKK are democrats

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            really? try to doing a little research on current affiliation where money and support go etc..

          • JoseCuervo

            Not anymore guy……… you still living 100 years in the past

          • Henry Mason

            Modern KKK really? Man what stupid people live today. I can’t believe they can actually breathe on their own.

          • JoseCuervo

            Modern KK right? Just some guys on halloween asking for candy

          • Rich Haas

            I don’t really know but only the un-hooded White guy is saluting with his right hand (which is the correct hand) while the three hooded guys are using their left hand with fingers opened and hands look a little dark also! That aside what about the African type flag that the New Black Panther Party and the Obama’s Church also flies and both pledge allegiance to Africa also, But that’s OK right???

          • JoseCuervo

            You are nitpicking.. you can’t be serious guy. But of course every thing comes down to Obama….. Because Obama clearly foguth for the South over a hundrd years ago….. Is that Obama under that white hood? must be.

          • Rich Haas

            You’re the one that posted a questionable KKK pic titled “modern KK Right? Just some guys on Halloween asking for candy.” Yeah I’m sure they were fighting for the south over 150 years ago! and you say I’m nitpicking just because I mentioned the Obama’s, What a hypocrite!!

          • betty jo

            But Rich you posted “facts” that is the one thing Liberals fear the most, I have had them tuck their tails and run like a child when I said only facts are allowed in the debate……

          • betty jo

            You notice he picked out the part he wanted to argue about, and said nothing about what you mentioned LMAO I have to say once again, Libs hate facts and will avoid them at all cost

          • Rich Haas

            Thanks Betty Jo You’re right! I keep forgetting and treat them like intelligent mature people, and every time I get reminded by an intelligent mature person like yourself of my error, thanks again!

          • Cameron

            They always fly the American flag because they’re ultranationalist reactionaries. Only certain southern off shoots of the KKK fly the confederate flag, because, well they’re southern. And that’s the flag of the south.

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            Oh i’m sorry I have to spell it out for ya, while there is still a version of the old KKK they now also call themselves conservative citizens council among other names but they still spew Hate and they are no doubt republican How about you try growing up my friend!

          • Rich Haas

            How bout you give equal treatment to hate groups like NBPP & The

            Trinity United Church of Christ of Chicago IL. both fly the African flag pledge their allegiance to Africa both talk about only taking care of the Black Family and the NBPP even talks about killing all Whites sounds pretty hateful to me, and neither sound pro- American!

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            maybe i would if they had a flag flying over government bldgs. but the last time I checked they did not and like i said if you’re a nutcase of any color I don’t mind if you fly whatever over your home or on your truck,but you should draw the line somewhere

          • betty jo

            I agree, let’s draw that line, right between “US” and those who want to destroy us………but I am sure you cannot see it, most with the kool aid blinders cannot see anything further than themselves

          • Cameron

            It wasn’t flying on a government building. It was flying on a war memorial in front of the government building. A memorial to confederate dead. A very appropriate place to be flying a confederate flag. Perhaps know what you’re arguing about before you argue?

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            Hey Cameron, Sorry I wasn’t precise enough for you, Substitute South Carolina Capitol grounds For Gvt BLDG. if that makes u happy You want to honor soldiers who fought for the right to secede from the Union, Fine by me. But do it in a museum, I for one would choose to honor my ancestors (if they were slave owners or fought for the south) for other things rather than for such a shameful cause, and i’d lament that they were on the wrong side of history…… make no mistake besides treason, a very large part of why they…..Well let me quote the words of the confederate Vp Stephens ” the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth” No doubt a black man would not see anything but southern pride when he gazed on that symbol of the confederacy.
            .

          • betty jo

            It’s not about anyone growing up, it’s about taking off the blinders, when you remove those, you will be free, until then you are enslaved believing these politicians really give a crap about you or me……it does not matter what color we are, we are dirt to them and yet, so few see it smh

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            No modern kkk? who helps you put your clothes on fella?

          • Thomas Joseph Leach

            Everyone screams kkk what about those punk ass black panthers. . FOLKS don’t talk about them

          • betty jo

            wrong again Emanuel, start doing more reading and less listening to those you look up to

          • betty jo

            what next, the American Flag? Then what? Let’s enslave everyone that believes in God? When does it stop, when do people, irregardless of their color learn God created man in “his” image, why is it so hard to see what is happening? You are seriously not looking at the same country I am or else you would see they are about to take all our freedoms and make us “all” into slaves……….Just keep fighting each other, that is what they want, it’s called DIVIDE AND CONQUER…..the oldest strategy in the world…..

          • Thomas Joseph Leach

            It’s getting to that point

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            Wrong about what?

          • angf117

            you might want to brush up on your history again the DEMOSHITS started the KKK they also were heavy into slaves which the South was blamed for….and to me the Confederate Flag means NOTHING about racism but more about heritage…

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            if you bothered to read my comment It says today’s racists( kkk included ) are primarily in the republican party… That doesn’t mean there aren’t racists (both black & white) in the dem party as well… As for the confederate flag meaning Nothing about racism, well if thats what you want to tell yourself go right ahead.

          • Thomas Joseph Leach

            The American flag is racist and there are more BLACK RACIST THAN THERE ARE WHITE RACIST. .. BLACK MAN KILL A WHITE OR HISPANICS COUNTRY LOOKS AT IT AS NO BIG DEAL. .. KILL A BLACK MAN AN THE BLOW IT UP ON CNN.

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            I see, You took a count of the number of black racists and the number of white racists did ya?

          • Thomas Joseph Leach

            Lol Butch your a trip you need to get out more

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            Oh look it’s the asswipe that had the temerity (bet you’ll have to look that up) to call me a fag, Nevermind angf117 my comments were meant for the grownups

          • Thomas Joseph Leach

            Yeah and the punk azz black panthers back democrats black version of the kkk… push racism. ..

          • Thomas Joseph Leach

            Also Crack another book the kkk was formed to keep Yankees and carpet baggers out of the south

          • Walter Jenny Jr.

            Your heritage is built on slavery. Why are you proud of that?

          • Cameron

            I gotta jump in. Poisoning the well fallacy. Cherry picking fallacy. Confirmation bias. All in one statement. Argument = invalid.

          • Rev. Mitchell

            I’m sorry, please specify what ‘heritage’ you are so proud of? A heritage of 400 years of unrequited servitude? A heritage of kidnapping people from their native soil? The heritage of rape, and murder? The heritage of mock courts denying justice to people of color? The heritage of Jim Crow? The heritage of lynching for sport? The heritage of church bombings and burning? The heritage of false dealing in finances? The heritage of racial superiority? Please don’t tell me your basing your heritage claim on the noble and heroic struggle against the aggressions of the North! If you are fighting in support of a purely evil system, I gotta tell you, there is nothing heroic or noble about it. And fighting under a banner that represented treason? Hmmm…..that is a heritage that belongs in history books and museums. Now, please tell us again, what HERITAGE your are talking about?

          • SandyT

            You’re talking about the Democrats, now. I’ve never been a damn Democrat and never will be. The Southerners didn’t go to Africa and raid villages and take the defeated as slaves, the other African tribes did that and sold their captives into slavery. The Democrats were the KKK and instituted the Jim Crow laws. Learn history, fool. I’ve never owned any slaves and neither did my ancestors. Less than 5% of Southerners owned any slaves, but many lost their lives fighting against the tyranny of the Northern aggressors. I will PROUDLY fly my Confederate flag, and if you don’t like it. you know what you can do! The Civil War was over 150 years ago, YOU were never a slave. Get over it! No treason, just fighting for states’ rights, and the right to do that is in the Constitution!

          • betty jo

            AMEN SANDY…..until they realize that it was the democratic party that not only created the KKK but were the main slave owners along with Margaret Sanger who came up with abortion to wipe out the black race, they will forever be entombed in the enslavement they created in their minds…..

          • David Arnold

            Hahahahahaha, you tea baggers are sooo funny. As a white male, you’re full of it if you really believe this. Of course, you won’t change, nor read, so … enjoy your ignorance.

          • Real African Moor

            That will be in a few hundred years……the sun is only getting hotter, and spf30 can only do so much. Have you ever wondered why the planet is only 3% white & EVERY BODY else on the planet are different shades of brown? Your race wasn’t here 7 thousand years ago, and it wont be a few hundred years from now. Scientist already announced by the year 2550 the natural blonde hair, blue eye genotype will be extinct. Your skin is a mutation, that’s why lab mice are breed albino. They want medicine that work on albinos….albinism is a mutation. This mutation happend approximately 7000 years ago. Plain and simple….the skin of the white race will be your destruction. I’m not being racist…just stating the facts. Have a wonderful day.

          • Rick Kitchen

            What gives you the idea that Louis Farrakhan represents the Left? He has in recent days become a Scientologist, and has long been anti-Semitic.

          • SandyT

            In case you hadn’t noticed, Farrakhan represents the Nation of Islam. Of course, he is anti-Semitic and also anti-American. He’s a buddy of Obama’s long time “pastor” Rev. Wright, who is as anti-American and anti-white as Obama is.

          • Rick Kitchen

            What gives you the idea that the Nation of Islam represents the Left?

          • SandyT

            He certainly doesn’t represent anything thing the American right supports. Are you saying that Obama doesn’t represent the left, too? Or, Rev. Wright doesn’t represent the left?

          • Rick Kitchen

            Have you ever read the comments from the Left about how middle of the road and corporatist Obama is?

            Rev Wright doesn’t represent anybody but himself.

          • Happy

            ..Hopefully they’ll erect a statue of Barry Obama squatting on the National Monument with his mouth full of ISIS pecker.

          • Larry Cochrane

            I promise the American flag will be next.

          • frodo

            let the bodies hit the floor

            I took an Oath to protect the American flag
            AND I WILL

            A VET!!!!

          • Bill_thompson95

            hahahaha

          • kduke

            Wanna bet your trailer against my house?

          • Walter Jenny Jr.

            You are wrong. Stand behind the American flag. This country isn’t perfect, but it is ours, and we’re forever trying to make it better. Relegating the Confederacy to museums is a step in the right direction.

          • That Dude

            Heck, not only that, but growing up, in NC I remember seeing the KKK march, and they were carrying more American Flags, than Confederate.
            For those who doubt, look it up, you might be able to find a non biased pic of it. Would have been in Greensboro, NC, Salisbury NC, Winston Salem,NC Lexington NC, I wanna say around 1976, as I was still really young.

          • Rev. Mitchell

            The difference is, their use of the American flag was an attempt to co-opt. They did not have to co-opt the Confederate flag. Everyone already knew what it stood for.

          • Ann Inquirer

            that’s one excuse I am hearing to get rid of Old Glory

          • Darren Johnson

            The South lost.

          • batman

            Darren Johnson::Did the South really lose.Look at Chicago,Detroit.Baltimore all northern cities.Who lost?

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            And 4 of the the five poorest counties in the US ,( with the most food stamps etc)..are in the south so what does that prove

          • Walter Jenny Jr.

            So you’re suggesting those cities “lost” by becoming significantly black?

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            If the Native Americans had won their conflict and if England had prevented the US from from getting its Independence, You can bet neither would be flying the Flag over Govt. Bldgs. Why should the confederacy which attempted to secede and FAILED, have that privilege?

          • jennaz

            States’ Rights?

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            States’ Rights? Not sure what you mean by that, but wasn’t the civil war fought over states’ rights? anywho if you believe in States’ rights , then i guess you would feel it would be ok to bring back Jim Crow (or even slavery) if a state wated to do it?

          • Emanuel Butch Johnson

            wanted not wated

          • Rev. Mitchell

            Really? That’s the best response you can come up with? What state has the right to officially fly the Nazi flag?

          • kduke

            Like you?
            Because that “talking point #3″ from the denier script doesn’t cut it.
            The battle flag has become a symbol of hatred.
            Notice who is coming to “defend” it?
            The KKK
            You folks who love the “heritage not hate” should be blocking the road to keep those SoBs out of the state.
            “allies” like that totally destroy any shred of respectability.

          • David Arnold

            The Nazis lost, and now the swastika is illegal to fly in Germany. What’s the difference here? The South lost the war, get over it and move on.

          • Vassie Welbeck-Browne

            And that is, indeed, a sad and shameful thing; however, it was that same American flag that fought against slavery.

          • Marisol

            History may be over, but racism isn’t. And you are right, “some people will never let it (racism) go even without the flag”.

          • Real African Moor

            The American flag is the symbol/banner of the USA. The CONfederate flag is neither a symbol or banner of any nation or State. If anything, put the damn thing in the museum. It doesn’t need to be on the state grounds unless it represents the mentality of the people governing the State.

          • Ernest Blackwell

            You should not forget. It is a proven fact that history repeats itself. We should study history and keep it where everyone can see it all the time. Maybe then we will not be domed to repeat the mistakes of the past.

        • sevines

          The reason they brought up slavery was because it bolstered their argument that the United States was violating the Constitution. South Carolina was right. However, that was just the legal justification for secession that South Carolina issued. The real causes were economic and fiscal exploitation of the South by the industrial and financial special interests of the North. In the end, God decided that slavery had to go and both sides suffered horrible casualties, but don’t kid yourself into thinking the North fought the Civil War because of moral outrage against slavery. You know I’m right.

          • Bill Griggs

            I don’t think the North fought the Civil War because of moral outrage over slavery, but I do think that preserving slavery was the main reason the South fought the Civil War. The North stopped returning freed slaves. Southerners wanted to be able to travel freely with their servants even in the North. The feds were banning slavery, depriving Southerners of billions and billions of dollars worth of their property. Most Southerners did not own slaves, but most all benefitted from slavery. They worked for slave owners. They bought, sold, stored or otherwise dealt in the products of slavery. They made textiles from slave produced cotton and hemp. They made their money providing goods or services to slave owners or others who profited from slavery.

            Agriculture was the economic engine of the South at the time and that engine relied on slave labor. If you look at the declarations of succession by the various states it is crystal clear why they wanted out of the Union. If you look at the statements by the president and vice president of the Confederacy, governors of the Southern states, generals in the Confederate Army, it is crystal clear that slavery was the main reason, the big driving factor leading Southern states to secede and fight that war. Abolition wasn’t that popular in the North either, but it was not going to hurt northerners like it would hurt southerners.

          • JosephineSouthern

            A book Complicity:

            Complicity: How the North Promoted, Prolonged, and …

            http://www.amazon.com By Anne Farrow, Joel Lang, Jenifer Frank

            I am a 60-year-old former journalist, working on my second book. I co-authored “Complicity, How the North Promoted, Prolonged, and Profited from Slavery” with …

        • That Dude

          I’m glad you read it, glad you posted it, but saddened by the fact you truly don’t see the fact it was about a States right. And only see the fact the word, the institution of slavery is mentioned as well.

          • Bill Griggs

            It was about states rights, states rights to permit slavery. That was the main reason for the war. Slavery wasn’t just mentioned, it was given as the primary reason. Go look at all the declarations of succession by the various Southern states. Go look at the words of Jefferson Davis, the president of the Confederacy. Look at what the vice president was saying, Confederate generals, governors of Southern states. By banning slavery the feds were depriving them of billions and billions of dollars worth of their property, killing agriculture, the economic engine of the South at the time. This was going to hurt all Southerners and they were none too happy about it. They were very angry with the North that had already stopped returning runaway slaves, even though the had promised to return them in the past. They felt like the North was breaking their deal with them and that it was wrong for the feds to tell them they could not have slavery in their sovereign states. It was about states rights. I agree, and the main right they were upset about was their right to have laws permitting slavery.

          • That Dude

            Well, atleast you attempted to understand it, so here is the State of South Carolina’s Declaration of Causes for Immediate Succession .

            South Carolina

            Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

            The people of the State of South Carolina, in Convention assembled, on the 26th day of April, A.D., 1852, declared that the frequent violations of the Constitution of the United States, by the Federal Government, and its encroachments upon the reserved rights of the States, fully justified this State in then withdrawing from the Federal Union; but in deference to the opinions and wishes of the other slaveholding States, she forbore at that time to exercise this right. Since that time, these encroachments have continued to increase, and further forbearance ceases to be a virtue.

            And now the State of South Carolina having resumed her separate and equal place among nations, deems it due to herself, to the remaining United States of America, and to the nations of the world, that she should declare the immediate causes which have led to this act.
            In the year 1765, that portion of the British Empire embracing Great Britain, undertook to make laws for the government of that portion composed of the thirteen American Colonies. A struggle for the right of self-government ensued, which resulted, on the 4th of July, 1776, in a Declaration, by the Colonies, “that they are, and of right ought to be, FREE AND INDEPENDENT STATES; and that, as free and independent States, they have full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent States may of right do.”

            They further solemnly declared that whenever any “form of government becomes destructive of the ends for which it was established, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new government.” Deeming the Government of Great Britain to have become destructive of these ends, they declared that the Colonies “are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved.”

            In pursuance of this Declaration of Independence, each of the thirteen States proceeded to exercise its separate sovereignty; adopted for itself a Constitution, and appointed officers for the administration of government in all its departments– Legislative, Executive and Judicial. For purposes of defense, they united their arms and their counsels; and, in 1778, they entered into a League known as the Articles of Confederation, whereby they agreed to entrust the administration of their external relations to a common agent, known as the Congress of the United States, expressly declaring, in the first Article “that each State retains its sovereignty, freedom and independence, and every power, jurisdiction and right which is not, by this Confederation, expressly delegated to the United States in Congress assembled.”

            Under this Confederation the war of the Revolution was carried on, and on the 3rd of September, 1783, the contest ended, and a definite Treaty was signed by Great Britain, in which she acknowledged the independence of the Colonies in the following terms: “ARTICLE 1– His Britannic Majesty acknowledges the said United States, viz: New Hampshire, Massachusetts Bay, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia, to be FREE, SOVEREIGN AND INDEPENDENT STATES; that he treats with them as such; and for himself, his heirs and successors, relinquishes all claims to the government, propriety and territorial rights of the same and every part thereof.”

            Thus were established the two great principles asserted by the Colonies, namely: the right of a State to govern itself; and the right of a people to abolish a Government when it becomes destructive of the ends for which it was instituted. And concurrent with the establishment of these principles, was the fact, that each Colony became and was recognized by the mother Country a FREE, SOVEREIGN AND INDEPENDENT STATE.

            In 1787, Deputies were appointed by the States to revise the Articles of Confederation, and on 17th September, 1787, these Deputies recommended for the adoption of the States, the Articles of Union, known as the Constitution of the United States.

            The parties to whom this Constitution was submitted, were the several sovereign States; they were to agree or disagree, and when nine of them agreed the compact was to take effect among those concurring; and the General Government, as the common agent, was then invested with their authority.

            If only nine of the thirteen States had concurred, the other four would have remained as they then were– separate, sovereign States, independent of any of the provisions of the Constitution. In fact, two of the States did not accede to the Constitution until long after it had gone into operation among the other eleven; and during that interval, they each exercised the functions of an independent nation.

            By this Constitution, certain duties were imposed upon the several States, and the exercise of certain of their powers was restrained, which necessarily implied their continued existence as sovereign States. But to remove all doubt, an amendment was added, which declared that the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, respectively, or to the people. On the 23d May , 1788, South Carolina, by a Convention of her People, passed an Ordinance assenting to this Constitution, and afterwards altered her own Constitution, to conform herself to the obligations she had undertaken.

            Thus was established, by compact between the States, a Government with definite objects and powers, limited to the express words of the grant. This limitation left the whole remaining mass of power subject to the clause reserving it to the States or to the people, and rendered unnecessary any specification of reserved rights.

            We hold that the Government thus established is subject to the two great principles asserted in the Declaration of Independence; and we hold further, that the mode of its formation subjects it to a third fundamental principle, namely: the law of compact. We maintain that in every compact between two or more parties, the obligation is mutual; that the failure of one of the contracting parties to perform a material part of the agreement, entirely releases the obligation of the other; and that where no arbiter is provided, each party is remitted to his own judgment to determine the fact of failure, with all its consequences.

            In the present case, that fact is established with certainty. We assert that fourteen of the States have deliberately refused, for years past, to fulfill their constitutional obligations, and we refer to their own Statutes for the proof.

            The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows: “No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due.”

            This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.

            The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States.

            The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.

            The ends for which the Constitution was framed are declared by itself to be “to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.”

            These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions. The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.

            We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.

            For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the *forms* [emphasis in the original] of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that “Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free,” and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

            This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.

            On the 4th day of March next, this party will take possession of the Government. It has announced that the South shall be excluded from the common territory, that the judicial tribunals shall be made sectional, and that a war must be waged against slavery until it shall cease throughout the United States.

            The guaranties of the Constitution will then no longer exist; the equal rights of the States will be lost. The slaveholding States will no longer have the power of self-government, or self-protection, and the Federal Government will have become their enemy.

            Sectional interest and animosity will deepen the irritation, and all hope of remedy is rendered vain, by the fact that public opinion at the North has invested a great political error with the sanction of more erroneous religious belief.

            We, therefore, the People of South Carolina, by our delegates in Convention assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, have solemnly declared that the Union heretofore existing between this State and the other States of North America, is dissolved, and that the State of South Carolina has resumed her position among the nations of the world, as a separate and independent State; with full power to levy war, conclude peace, contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other acts and things which independent States may of right do.

            Adopted December 24, 1860

          • That Dude

            There sure is a lot of language there in that Declaration of Causes for Succession, that spells out A whole bunch of other misdeeds by the central government. But I guess it’s much easier to place ones chair over one universally disliked aspect of the time, and that would slavery, which, was legal at that time in all of the original colonies.
            Before you get back upon that high horse, let me say this. I do not like , nor approve of slavery, of any individual or class of people, but, it was legal. I don’t approve of the murdering of babies, in the womb of the mother that should protect them, but it is legal.
            But, back on topic. I guess now is where you tell me that the Emancipation Proclamation actually freed slaves?!?! And where you’ll wanna tap dance around how Lincoln handled the “border states” that had Slaves, but was union loyal.
            Ohh, Lincoln, that Great Man of ALL people.

          • JSebastian

            Only five confederate states mentioned slavery in their secession documents.

        • Michael

          It was only about slavery inasmuch as slavery was the context of the federal government trying to assert dominance over the states. The war was fought because the federal government was trying to usurp state sovereignty – it just so happened that the subject area for that usurpation was slavery. It’s a subtle, but important distinction to make.

          • Barry White

            Not really an important distinction. Those who say that slavery had little or nothing to do with the Civil War are just wrong. You can split hairs all you want, talk about how bad the North was even though that isn’t particularly relevant, but the fact remains that the biggest reason for the South to fight was that the danged yankees were outlawing slavery even in their sovereign territory. It was about money to both sides, and about states rights to the South, but the main thing they wanted the right to do was to keep their expensive property, keep slavery going, so they could continue to make a living. Revisionists say slavery had little or nothing to do with it.

            I have a bed in my home made by my great great great grandparents’ slaves. My grandmother was one of the sweetest people you could ever meet, not a hateful bone in her body, such a gracious wonderful Southern lady. She had “colored people” working for her, a nanny, a maid, someone who did their laundry. I’m sure she was very good to these people, but I remember when I was very young and we were visiting she made a comment about how “they let them drink out of the same water fountains now and swim in the same swimming pools,” in a “what in the heck is the world coming to these days” kind of way. I said, “grandmom, you’re a bigot.” My father jerked me aside and told me he would whip my rear end if I ever spoke to her like that again, that she was a decent sweet woman who had just grown up in a different time, she was old and that’s the way she was raised and she wasn’t going to change. I like to imagine that her great great grandparents who had the slaves were nice slave owners. They grew up in a different time too, a much different time. They were I suppose racists, but even some of my founding father heros like Thomas Jefferson had slaves.

            Humans are complex and not all good or bad, even if they may be wrong about some things. Southerners weren’t necessarily evil. No one living at the time of the Civil War was around when slavery started in this country. They grew up into it. Should we hate our Southern ancestors, be terribly ashamed of them? Heck no, because they were probably mostly good. There is a lot to be proud of, but there are also things we have to recognize as bad. Slavery is one of those things. The fight against the civil rights movement wasn’t one of our finest periods either. That’s where the battle flag really started coming into use, as a symbol of the fight to keep segregation in place. That’s where it really took on the ugly connotations and became a symbol of something very wrong in this country.

            This is where the South can really rise again, by being bigger people, better people, people who can put silliness behind us. This flag needs to go, needs to be taken down from any government buildings. It says we continue to stand for oppression of blacks. Our continued defiance just makes us look bad. It’s embarrassing. It’s disheartening because it’s arrogant pride that only serves to further divide this country. It’s the same thing that in its more extreme versions is leading to burning of all these black churches over a silly flag. We need to put this nonsense behind us, stand up against racism and silly pride, make this stand part of our proud heritage. It’s time.

          • Michael

            It’s an important distinction, because when people over-simplify the reasons for the South’s secession by saying “they just wanted to keep slavery going” would be like saying the colonies seceded from England because they didn’t like the Stamp Act. Sure, that was (one of) the flashpoint(s), but the reason the colonies went to war with England was far more broad than that. Likewise, while slavery was the flashpoint for the civil war, it’s only the “location” of the issue, not the issue itself. The issue itself was one of the states (rightly) feeling like the federal government was trying to overrun their authority.

            The reason it’s an important distinction is because the argument that the confederate battle flag is a racist symbol is heavily reliant on the idea that the reason the South went to war was because they were racist bastards, and it’s just not that simple.

            It’s fair to point out that the stars & stripes was the national flag of a country that accepted slavery for a very long time, yet no one is calling for it to be removed. The fact that some racist bastards in the 60s coopted the flag for their agenda doesn’t mean that every display of the flag is aligned with that agenda, in the same way that when you see a swastika in tibet, it’s not a symbol of nazism. Flying the confederate battle flag at a confederate soldiers memorial is no different than if the US was to fly a 48 star flag at the USS Arizona memorial, or a Betsy Ross flag at Concord.

            The only people who think the confederate battle flag is, on the whole, offensive, are people too stupid to understand the complexities that arise when more than one group of people use the same images for their purposes.

            I, for one, think we’re better than that.

      • Faik Fasebuk

        Thank god we’re headed into another ice-age…

        • That Dude

          An Ice age still won’t change the truth.

      • goingoffthegrid

        what am i to make of this then. that our president and next presidential hopeful is in support of slavery? Give it a rest. It stands for southern pride. Pride to stand up in what you believe in. Get a clue, you probably have never been to the south.

        • goingoffthegrid

          BTW, that button should read “European Americans”, its racist!

        • David Ward

          Hey grid man, not only did you not really read my post but you couldn’t be more off base about my connection to the south. I detailed it pretty well in response to someone else that thought the same thing. Scroll around or go directly to my disqus profile to understand if you feel like it. I’m about as southern and backcountry as it gets. Except that I dont hate black people and I make a pretty good living. Those set me apart a bit from many of the knuckleheads posting here. Read before posting dude. Makes you look less the clown.

      • m1tmc

        They absolutely did share the views as they received the original 13th(ghost) Amendment signed by Abraham Lincoln himself and the northern states promising to not interfere with slavery if the southern states would cease their petitions to secede. Lincoln sent a letter to his election bankrollers that he would collect the taxes(Morrill Tariff) that would triple the taxes being paid by the southern states. Robt E Lee was asked, by Lincoln, to lead the invasion of the south to stop the rebellion and collect the taxes. To which he replied that he would be defending and resigned from the Union army. To the victors go the spoils…….and the history. So, we can’t always accept the history that makes Lincoln out to be the ‘great emancipator’. Oh, yea, and why was it not until 1863 that the emancipation proclamation was released? What was Lincoln’s intent for the slaves?

        • David Ward

          I had to scroll up to see what you were responding to. It appears youis read my post with the link to the language used in the MS declaration of secession. My response was to someone that said the secession attempt was not about the slavery issue. Clearly, based on the opening of their declaration , not only was slavery part of the reason, it was the focal point of it. I’m not a Rhodes Scholar, but I don’t think there’s any reading between the lines on this one.

          • m1tmc

            and I’m fine with you being satisfied with your understanding of the issue.

      • Connie Chastain

        And yet, even Mississippi’s declaration includes other reasons for the state’s secession. People usually do what you did here, and only post part of it, with only a link to the rest. It’s 709 words long. You posted 68 of them. Here’s the rest, with some commentary by me.

        Although the document begins with “Our position is thoroughly identified with slavery,” it sure mention lots of OTHER issues. Lots of ’em. See for yourself.

        With slavery as the excuse, the north had “…deprived the South of more than half the territory acquired from France….dismembered Texas and seized upon all the territory acquired from Mexico…”

        Territory? TERRITORY? But-but-but we’re told it was ALL ABOUT SLAVERY and ONLY ABOUT SLAVERY. This is because critics QUIT READING after “Our position is thoroughly identified with slavery….”

        Not this time. Keep reading.

        What other ways had the north victimized Mississippi and its people using slavery as the excuse? Well, it “…trampled the equality of the South underfoot …promoted insurrection and incindiarism in our midst… enlisted its press, its pulpit and its schools against us, until the whole popular mind of the North is excited and inflamed with prejudice…

        In other words, slavery was the excuse for stirring up sheer, blanket HATRED in the North for Southerners.

        Moreover, it ” … seeks not to elevate or to support the slave, but to destroy his present condition without providing a better … ”

        Hmmm…. sounds like the more things change, the more they stay the same, huh? To this day, northern do-goodism is frequently about bellyaching over problems — indeed, sometimes making them worse — without offering solutions.

        Oh, but don’t stop reading now. “It has invaded a State, and invested with the honors of martyrdom the wretch whose purpose was to apply flames to our dwellings, and the weapons of destruction to our lives …. it has broken every compact into which it has entered for our security…”

        Security? SECURITY? Mississippians were concerned about their security? Concerned for their very lives? Yes, in case you’re having trouble with that part of the document, it means slavery was the excuse for putting the lives of the Southern people in danger. But-but-but we’re told it was ALL ABOUT SLAVERY and ONLY ABOUT SLAVERY — that keepin’ their slaves was the only thing Southerners cared about. Right? RIGHT?

        Keep reading, we’re not finished yet. If killing Southerners didn’t work out, the north designed and desired economic ruin for the South, using slavery as the excuse:

        “….It has given indubitable evidence of its design to ruin our agriculture, to prostrate our industrial pursuits and to destroy our social system … ”

        And we know, don’t we, that’s EXACTLY what the north’s war against the South achieved — economic ruin so devastating it lasted for generations.

        All about slavery? Only about slavery? Only to the extent that the north used slavery as the excuse to vent its hatred of the South, and as the method whereby to acquire the South’s wealth for itself….

        I’ve shown you how to pull the scales from your eyes using Misssissippi’s secession document; see if you can do it for yourself using Georgia’s.

        Then, remember this. Only the states of the Deep South seceded, in part, due to issues related to slavery. The states of the upper South seceded ONLY AFTER Lincoln called forth a freaking ARMY to invade the seceded states and tried to coerce them into sending troops.

        • David Ward

          Of course there were other reasons on top of slavery! Otherwise it would have not needed to be any longer than the 68 words you counted :)
          my response was to the original post that mentioned it was never about slavery. Which is what led me to show that he was wrong. Which I did. I only needed one single piece of the entire document to do so
          The rest is meaningless to show his statement was false. If it didn’t have anything to do with slavery, they wouldn’t say, “our position is THROUROUGHLY identified with slavery”.

          This isn’t one of those read between the lines situations or open for interpretation situations dude. Which is apparently the way you would like it to be. And to be honest, that isn’t even what my argument is. My original argument is about flying the banner on taxpayer property. At the end of the day, all of everyone’s foot stomping and tantrum throwing won’t change the fact, that like AL just did, it’s coming down . Regardless of the heritage excuse you want to offer. Knuckleheads are rampant in this bunch of posters.

          • Connie Chastain

            Well, my position is that there’s nothing wrong with a state commemorating the only soldiers in history to fight for them rather than their nation. You don’t have to blanket the capitol with flags, but to have them displayed at memorial statues seems okay to me. I’m not sure why that would be considered a circus act.

            People freak out over flags, proclaiming the flag “doesn’t represent me” or “we need a flag that unites us, not divide us.” Gracious, Confederate flags have no sovereignty. They are historical relics. Putting them with a state-specific civil war memorial on capitol grounds doesn’t suddenly, magically make them sovereign flags.

          • David Ward

            I actually don’t disagree with you on that. But like everything in a society, things get dictated in the end by the strength of the will of either side of an issue. The only question remains is whether the side that looks as though momentum is lost keeps up the fight. Which is what has been the American way for so long and can be a good thing, most of the time. It’s just my opinion that if the heat about this continues to boil, it will financially impact the state. I still have property in SC. And it’s a funny thing how a “righteous” fight becomes one to be reconsidered when it hits the personal wallet. I simply don’t see this as a fight worth continuing. The end writing is pretty obvious in my opinion.

            Alabama read that wall very very quickly and took action immediately. And I know that state is every bit as conservative as mine.

          • Connie Chastain

            We know some of the history of the flag in SC, but other parts aren’t as well known. For example, in 2000, the legislature — due to a tourism boycott by the NAACP — voted to remove the flag from the capitol dome. It was put next to the Confederate soldiers’ memorial on the capitol grounds. That’s well known.

            NAACP didn’t like that and declared their boycott would continue. The flag was removed from the memorial in February 2006 and the NAACP ended the boycott. But during the third quarter of the same year, there was an alarming drop in tourism revenues. The state did studies, took surveys, made models, and discovered a large part of the state’s tourism market had disappeared. This segment was made up of tourists from other Southern states.

            There was no organized boycott. Info was spread by word of mouth and it swept across the South like wildfire. People didn’t want to spend their money in a state that disrespected their history and ancestors. So they quit coming. By 2009, tourism revenues had dropped 10% and the industry was hurting. The flag went back up at the Confederate memorial in 2010. This part isn’t quite so well known.

            The above info edited from “Rebel flag quietly goes back up” by Trace Gibbs, The State, March 2010

            That’s what’s going to happen again. Southerners are a stubborn lot. They’d won’t give their money to those they think are dishonoring what they revere. South Carolina will feel it disproportionately, but Alabama won’t be immune, nor Virginia, Texas, Tennessee….There simply won’t be enough tourists from outside the South to make up the difference.

            Incidentally, I’ve been able to find nothing that indicates the NAACP’s tourism boycott had anywhere near the effect of the informal one by people in other Southern states.

          • David Ward

            That’s pretty interesting information, because that is what’s at the heart of the matter. Tourism dollars. I get what you’re saying. If the flag stays and there isn’t a hit, then it never wasuch of an issue. But the compromise of 2000 was in far less intense environment and you didn’t have this level of corporate concern. And my ambivalence over it staying or not, doesn’t NOT make me a true south carolinian. It simply is not as important to me and if taking it off the capital grounds quells the craziness, then I support it. I’m not one that thinks capituating on this will lead to a lessening of our rights. We’ve survived every administration that has come before this one. We’ll survive this one. Hopefully it won’t be followed by Hillary. Cause that would make a very long ride to have been on.

          • JosephineSouthern

            Fact number 1 is this Capitol is a Historical Site and so is the Monument where the Flag is located. It is a Museum in its own way having been rebuilt after Sherman’s torch. The best resolution would be to build a separate capitol and retire the present one. When it is retired as a relic, you can put back the Huge Confederate Flags on the walls of the legislature like they were before 2000. The WOW effect. This would be a huge attraction because it really was awesome.

          • David Ward

            That sounds like an idea with real merit. When you can take a problem, solve it to the satisfaction of both sides, and also turn a profit, it’s hard to find fault in that.

    • Tammy Allcorn Ellis

      Excellent!! Somebody who is ACTUALLY knowledgeable about history!!! I would like to copy and paste this to my Facebook page to educate a few idiots!!

      • David Ward

        oh look…another one who loves to stumble upon a copy and paste moment, because it mirrors your thoughts (hopes anyway), but is done so with pretty words. before you educate your FB idiots (and why would you keep idiots on your list anyway?), make sure none of those idiots have actually done real research that would make you have to say…but…but…that guy on the forums who made it sound really good said it was so. The real fact of the matter is, it’s not really about what you would like the flag to represent. it’s a much more important matter. that is…leave it up and see massive amounts of dollars dry up. I swear, you all are just like kids. willing to cut off your nose to spite your face.

        • Tammy Allcorn Ellis

          You are one of those college educated idiots that has probably only studied the “approved” version of history. The flag is a part of the states history and it hasn’t affected their growth or finances before. The only reason it is in the forefront now is a way to distract from REAL issues. Abraham Lincoln was the original “I was for it before I was against it” politician and had he not massed troops on the Virginia border the war might not have even happened! The emancipation proclamation DID NOT free all slaves, it only freed slaves that belonged to the confederacy, if you were a northern slave owner those slaves were returned to their owners if they escaped. Was slavery a part of the reason the civil war was waged, absolutely, but not for the reasons that most have been taught. It wasn’t because the Union was so anti slavery, it was ECONOMICS!!!! Money!! The basic reason for almost every war that has been waged! And the reason I wanted to copy and paste was to help show that there was OTHER educated people who had learned the same things I had in my INDEPENDENT RESEARCH! Just like you cite a source! Apparently that concept is above your head and intelligence level. BTW I live in a county of Alabama that seceded from the confederacy and almost all of my ancestors fought for the union, I have tried to educate myself as to the REAL issues of the civil war, you might want to try that sometime.

          • David Ward

            Tammy, I’m pretty sure the following will fall on deaf ears, but here goes. I was born and raised in SC. you know what the “approved” version of southern history up until the early 1980’s was for secondary education up through high school? It was provided to us by Ms. Oliphant and her publishing heirs. Google her and spend a few minutes if you consider yourself a self-empowered researcher. Fortunately, I DID GO TO college or i may have been stuck with her version going forward and would sound very much like, well…you. And if you are a Bama girl, then i shouldn’t have to tell you just how “approved” y’alls versions were. Listen, just because you live in the south doesn’t mean you can’t rise above the horseshit that your ancestors have been shoving down your throat your entire life. Listen… it’s okay for Daddy to be wrong. It’s ok to challenge Daddy’s antiquated spins on history to fit what Ben Tillman and J. Calhoun would want you to believe. Don’t be a horse’s ass that continues to perpetuate myths in order to hide your embarrassment (and i hope you are), at the way your ancestors treated humans. If your panties are in such a wad over the removal of a piece of cloth that no longer fits in today’s world, then you have much larger issues at hand. Funny thing is, that flag flying on the Capital grounds didn’t even exist during the Civil War (sorry…war of northern aggression). It was the fourth iteration and if you read up on the first 3 you will actually get a good laugh at why they screwed them all up. That flag means NOTHING to you or me. You just WANT it to is all. I am more concerned about dollars going out of a state that i pay property taxes on a home i still own there, as a result of the negative publicity this whole circus show is generating. There’s one thing to take a stand and give the rest of the country and world the high finger for not matter the fallout when your are right. Doing it for something that you and I both know doesn’t matter in the larger picture is just cutting off your nose to spite your face. and that my dear, is just plain stupid. And i sure didn’t need that college degree to know that. best to you though.

        • Trace

          Wow lil David. You seem to want to skip around like a little girl and try to run all over everyone else’s posts and opinions. You aren’t impressing anyone. I’m pretty sure they see through your demeaning comments and notice your blatant insecurities. If you have an opinion? Express it. Don’t just show up and start attacking people with childish comments. Say your piece and be gone with you. It’s pathetic and sad that you really think anyone cares about what you have to say that you have to oppress every post on here. Such a waist. Get a life.

          Go pick up your leggos before daddy steps on them.

      • Faik Fasebuk

        Indians never were slaves, in fact, they BOUGHT slaves from the Jewish slave traders.

      • Democratic_Thinker

        Sadly Fred Potter is wrong and instead of cutting and pasting, you need to READ the declaration of Secession from South Carolina and other states and READ what THEY, the secessionists said was important…SLAVERY .

        • Tammy Allcorn Ellis

          Sadly , Democratic thinker, by your way of thinking, you need to dissolve your on party for the fact they were the party of Slavery! History is written by the victors, and is usually scrubbed and slanted to make them look good in the eyes of history. I said slavery was ONE of the major issues, but the states felt like it should be THEIR choice as to when and how it ended. It wasn’t addressed in the constitution, and therefore SHOULD HAVE BEEN LEFT UP TO THE STATES! I hate slavery, it abhors me, it was wrong and our founding fathers should have addressed it and that would have been off the table! But Yall act like the south was the ONLY place that slavery existed, it existed in the North also! And free men were captured by NORTHENERS and sent South to get rewards!! The hypocrisy is maddening!

          • David Ward

            you do know Tammy that nomenclature has a funny way of changing over time right? You do realize that Ben Tillman and his like were democrats right? You do know that Strom Thurmond was a democrat right? You do know that Abe Lincoln was a republican right? you see where i am going with this? sometimes a rose is not a rose. and please don’t lie when you tell us you abhor slavery. that’s like when my daughter says she hates chocolate, but the crumpled wrapper is sticking out of her pocket. actually, you said “slavery abhors” you. although I’m sure you just got a bit tongue tied, the irony is not lost on that one :)

          • Democratic_Thinker

            READ the declaration of secession by South Carolina. Its clear its about slavery. The secessionists made it clear. This is not written by the victors. This is not about the Federal government entering a southern state and making them abolish slavery. Its about the Southern states pulling out of the union because the northern states were not as cooperative in helping return runaway slaves, and were not as hospitable to extending slavery to new territories and states. This was not about state’s rights (the South wanted the federal government to override the northern states who did not want to use their resources to enforce southern state slaveowners “property rights” and did not always want to recognize slaves brought north as chattel… So the southern states rebelled to advance and protect slavery. Yes racism existed in the US..north and south. Still does. However the Southern states rebelled and went to war against the Union and lost over slavery. The Union fought..not to free the slaves in the southern states but to preserve the Union. The south is not a separate country. Get over it. This is not about Party. Both Republicans and Democrats who believe that Black Americans are citizens and that slavery was terrible and that racism should not be enshrined and the Confederate flag , like the Confederacy is so OVER and is a reminder of slavery and racist thinking…want it removed.

          • Bradley Jackson

            You are so right!

            Civil War fought over rights of Wealthy to keep slave economy……..

            The value of the slaves in the south was worth more than anything, except the land itself.

            There were millions of slaves in the south. When Lincoln threatened to abolish slavery, the TPTB knew that would be a punishing blow to the southern economy and to the pockets of the wealthy land owners.

            Millions of dollars of slave/property value would disappear overnight. Rich folks don’t want to become poor. They would rather fight. Hence the reason for the Civil War.

            It’s really all about economics. Sure the poor dirt farmers did not own slaves, and the large majority of whites did not own slaves either. They really did not care much about the slave issue.

            But those poor white farmers and their families were needed on the front lines to fight for the wealthy land owners. So they created the States Rights issue that most poor whites could identify with.

            Now they were ready to fight. Economics is the motor of history. Follow the money………

        • BeenThere

          On the 4th March next, this party will take possession of the Government. It has announced, that the South shall be excluded from the common Territory; that the Judicial Tribunals shall be made sectional, and that a war must be waged against slavery until it shall cease throughout the United States.

          Sounds like they wanted to keep slavery, the wording cease throughout the United States is little harsh

          The Guaranties of the Constitution will then no longer exist; the equal rights of the States will be lost. The slaveholding States will no longer have the power of self-government, or self-protection, and the Federal Government will have become their enemy.

          Sounds like the Obama administration except this is dated 1860.

          I do not see your point, slavery was not an issue state rights were

        • Ariyen

          Research, visit military parks, etc then speak.

          • Democratic_Thinker

            You mean to call yourself Aryan…? I read history. I read the declarations of secession.. in which the issue they cite was slavery and complained that northern states were not returning their property (slaves) to them when they fled and other things..all that related to slavery .

    • gemcrae

      The UNITED STATES FLAG FLEW OF THE INDIAN NATIONS UP UNTIL TODAY, THAT SIR IS SLAVERY, TAKE IT DOWN DAMIT

      • FedupandReadytofight

        Gemcrae, your statement doesn’t make any sense. I’m not sure what you’re try
        ing to say.

      • David Ward

        translation please.

        • Trace

          Wow lil David. You seem to want to skip around like a little girl and try to run all over everyone else’s posts and opinions. You aren’t impressing anyone. I’m pretty sure they see through your demeaning comments and notice your blatant insecurities. If you have an opinion? Express it. Don’t just show up and start attacking people with childish comments. Say your piece and be gone with you. It’s pathetic and sad that you really think anyone cares about what you have to say that you have to oppress every post on here. Such a waist. Get a life.
          Go pick up your Legos before daddy steps on them.

          • Allison Baen

            Hey Trace, look in the mirror. ho,ho

          • Trace

            My comment is meant to be purely insulting.
            I am MORE than aware of that considering I posted it.
            I do believe I accomplished that.
            If you disagree? You are more than welcome to put a rebuttal.

          • Westland

            I hate to break it to you but your comment contributed nothing of value to the discussion. Go back to school please.

          • Trace

            Did i in any way attempt too?
            Maybe read it before making assumptions of intent.
            School? You have no idea. lol

          • David Ward

            I skip around in the hopes of educating some of you to the realities of the day, that are taking place and impacting negatively the state which I was born and raised and which I still own property in and pay taxes on. Clearly, I have wasted, not “waisted”, both your time and mine. At the end of the day, just as some of your forefathers did, you will lose this battle as well.

          • Trace

            You, with your condescending attitude towards every posts that you’ve invaded, Educate? LMAO,,, It’s sad that i think you actually believe that. And yes i am aware of the trials of autocorrection errors. Don’t need “Educated” by the pathetic. But thanks for confirming the obvious character flaw that i was bring to your attention. Ya might wanna go pick on some more little people to get your ego boost. This one just might break ya.
            You seems to just be some punk with a keyboard that thinks he can run around and talk trash to and about people. I’m guessing you were beat up by a lot of girls in school, Or maybe just shunned all together. Are you sad that no one knew you existed? Now you’ll teach them all…. lol. You think if you tag everyone’s comments that they’ll HAVE to notice you. lol. Hurry,,, Run to another post before anyone catches on.

            “Educate”? You!? LMAO.

          • David Ward

            I’m only condescending to knucklehead racists that need a banner to solve their identity crisis.

          • Trace

            Couldn’t care less about the racists. I spent my time in the sand so they could be what they are. White, Black, Red, Yellow… Although it seems that the ones Screaming “Racism” the loudest are the very racists they cry about.
            The Confederate flag wasn’t in any way linked to slavery. That’s like saying you don’t like the color yellow because a yellow vehicle bumped into your Great Grand mothers car.
            If you seriously think betting rid of the flag will stop racism… then you are in serious need of something that even an education could fix.
            Racism needs to be stamped out in ALL of it’s forms. The worst racist i’ve ever seen are themselves black. But that makes it ok? Because they’re black? Isn’t that the epitome of racism? If you stick your head in the dirt and pretend not to see what is going on around you? Then YOU are part of the problem.

          • David Ward

            you seem to shout a whole lot. and your analogies are really poor. i’m pretty sure there isn’t widespread outrage and condemnation of the color yellow. hypothetical analogies are the worst. especially when they aren’t apples to apples. on top of the fact that you ramble a lot, you are not asking questions that you want to be answered. everyone single one is rhetorical in your mind. Earlier you looked to blame your writing errors on auto correct. auto correct doesn’t cause horrible sentence structure. which means i am either going back and forth with an uneducated man, or one that just doesn’t care about sounding intelligent. either way, it makes you less credible and means you have little to no value to offer. Because kids speak like this…

            “I’m guessing you were beat up by a lot of girls in school, Or maybe just shunned all together. Are you sad that no one knew you existed?”

          • Trace

            LMAO,,,, All that I’ve said, and your rebuttal is about spelling errors and sentence structure? Really !?
            If you can’t see the relationship of my example? Then maybe you might need to find an adult and have them explain it to you.

            BTW,,, When speaking to a child one must speak as a child.
            Is that better?

      • dj

        REALLY?? And since when does a piece of fabric cause anything? This is NO different that school flags as the Confederate flag was the flag for Army of Northern Virgina and is part of America’s HISTORY that you cannot change and it looks as if you prefer to repeat it since you didn’t learn from the past….Our country is more divided now and has nothing to do with any flag only a president that is hell bent on destroying America from within and the funnest part – he is half white and half black but yet continues to hate whites and promotes it…..you are part of the problem and nothing to do with a solution and removing a flag won’t change that..

        • gemcrae

          It not the flag,just leave us the hell along and let us deal with this, anyone it side of SOUTH Carolina does not have a Damn thing to fo with this issue interference is what started 1860

          • Jack

            ENGLISH! DO YOU SPEAK IT?!?!

          • WILLIAM

            FlagFLAG

            The United States of America Military Flag

            plain and simple–no gold fringe or other ornaments and symbolism attachedNot the original
            USA Military flag

            Some say it is a flag of Admiralty/Maritime type jurisdiction and is not suppose to be used on Land. Others say it’s not a flag at all, but fiction.However, the gold fringe which surrounds the flag gives notice that the American flag has been captured and is now being used by the corporate so-called government to give notice of its jurisdiction.

            Prior to the 1950’s, state republic flags were mostly flown, but when a USA flag was flown, usually only at USA facilities, it was one of the following:

            Military flag –Horizontal stripes, white stars on blue backgroundHas no fringe, braid (tassel), eagle, ball, spear, etc.

            Some say the correct size ratio is 1 x 1.9

            Civil Flag –Created in 1799 by Secretary of the Treasury Oliver Wolcott. Intended for peace time usage, denoting civil jurisdiction under the Constitution and common law. Has vertical stripes, blue stars on white background–last flown before Civil War with a few exceptions.

            A 1913 Postcard has a civil flag flying
            on the Customs House in San Francisco

            Click on picture to enlarge

            Another example of
            the vertical stripes:
            “The Coast Guard Ensign (flag) was first flown by the Revenue Cutter Service in 1799 to distinguish revenue cutters from merchant ships.”
            –Wikipedia

            This flag was a symbol of law enforcement authority, not Military authority.

            The flag shown above appears to be a “USA flag” but has one or more of the following:

            Gold fringe along its borders (called “a badge”)

            Gold braided cord (tassel) hanging from pole

            Ball on top of pole (last cannon ball fired)
            Mainly used at induction centers.

            Eagle on top of pole

            Spear on top of pole
            Some people see them as ornaments but all symbols have a meaning and purpose.

            The flag shown above is Not described in Title 4 of USC and therefore is illegal on land except for maybe (1) the President since he is in charge of Naval Forces on high seas, and (2) naval offices and yards.

            President Eisenhower settled the debate on the width of the fringe.

            The so-called justification for a Naval/Maritime flag to be on land is that all land was under the high water mark at one time even if it was eons ago.

            Flags on poles flying at the same height as other flags have equal status. A flag flying higher than the flag below indicates superiority over the flag below. Note that corporate state flags fly below the US flag.

            Keep in mind that the states were originally Sovereign over the central government and only the state flags were flown except in the District of Columbia not exceeding 10 miles square, its territories, forts, dockyards, arsenals, and other needful buildings, such as Post Offices, purchased with the consent of the legislature of the affected state.
            (Constitution, Section 8, Clause 17)

            The people in the geographic continental USA are at peace but the corporate government continues to be at war to exist, to increase and perpetuate debt, and to enrich others through

          • Ariyen

            Jordan Thompson said, “I’m offended that everyone is offended by something.

            I’m offended that because I’m a white male, people automatically classify me as privileged, regardless of knowing where I’ve come from or what I’ve been through. I’m offended that our First Amendment has turned into freedom of speech [just as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone’s feelings]. I’m offended that people assume I’m racist because I believe in economic development by way of Capitalism and a free-market economy.

            I’m offended that people who are too afraid to ask for food stamps, disability, or unemployment (because they don’t want a handout) are probably the ones who could use it most, yet the majority of recipients who do in fact receive handouts abuse their “privilege” and continue to make frivolous purchases.

            I’m offended that people care more about taking down an outdated Confederate flag but don’t get riled up when their American flag is being burned in the street. I’m offended that people care more about blocking homosexuals from getting married than fixing their own, broken and unstable, heterosexual marriages. I’m offended that fast food workers get paid more than my soldiers yet still expect to get paid more than nurses.

            I’m offended by people who claim how offended they are, while they do nothing but gripe about it on their phones or laptops, when they could be writing or calling their respective representatives to actually get something accomplished. I’m offended by the lack of initiative, hard work, and tenacity in this country. I’m offended by complainers who pity themselves and just want to take as much as they can. I’m offended by those who have in fact “made it” yet are too rude to give back to the communities in which they’ve come from.

            I’m offended by people who vote for a person based on the party they represent, the race or gender, age or a religion of a candidate… instead of how the candidate proposes to address each issue, respectivly. I’m offended by people who aren’t open-minded and think they’re always right, no matter what. I’m offended by people who don’t listen and read and legitimately try to understand unfamiliar concepts before brushing them off. I’m offended of what our country has become.

            I don’t claim to know solutions to these issues… eventually maybe we will. I just pray that we can one day change our country for the better. And hope that our offenses can turn into progress.”

          • Contessa Washington

            Well said.

          • Terry Hall

            Well said.

          • Les Stafford

            You forgot to be offended that employees or those wanting to be employed are required to take drug tests, while those getting hand outs, deserved or not, are NOT required to do the same.

          • hillwilliamus

            I’m offended by defensive people who think their tiny minds are open and who quote like-minded others instead of facts to support their self-serving argument. They are why this heritage thing has concealed pervasive racism for so long and lead to the Charleston massacre.

          • Ariyen

            hahaha defensive? Sounds like you’re being a hypocrite. Seriously that’s no morals, no values, no respect, and oh selfish response. No wonder our country is in crap… You really don’t know sarcasm either in that “offense” message.

            So, I quote myself, “A lot of what the problems are… Lack of Morals, Values, respect, knowledge, selflessness, etc. People are letting themselves be as they are, because they don’t know how to not be anything else… They accuse of racists, don’t like things, because that’s who they are… No one else nor any material thing made them that way. They take things too personal and so they end up selfish more than using / doing selfless acts.”

            I’m not being defensive. I’m quoting what others say, because I feel people like YOU need to read… You refuse your history as is, because you refuse to research and be CONSIDERATE.. Your actions betray you and I don’t have to judge to know this. So…

            Enjoy being a selfish brat. x-D I’m loving you people for it.. gives me humor in the dumbest of things… Really, Judgmental much? Who gives you the right to JUDGE? Not Freedom of Speech. Not our Constitution. Not you… it’s a selfish act.. Learn your Values (being thankful for what you have), Learn your morals (being considerate of others and helpful to know the serenity of it all), Learn your respect (giving is in getting, not expecting of others, but understanding of others). Learn to be selfless, not selfish and you’d see how doing good deeds is better than expecting things YOUR way.

          • That Dude

            I am offended by people ,who are offended by not being on the Government ran plantation. Doe’s that count? Or, am I required to throw in some sort of statement about my military experience, which I volunteered for, and then complain about the pay? Whilst i forget the housing, healthcare,etc that was provided?

          • That Dude

            Well, at least 6 people could translate your garble, so, rock on? I guess?

        • Dan Houser

          Explain why anyone would proudly display a battle flag from a disgraced Army that surrendered if if didn’t have a deeper meaning?

          • Rich Haas

            THE CONFEDERATE BATTLE FLAG IS THE SYMBOL THAT REPRESENTS THE INDOMITABLE SPIRIT OF INDEPENDENCE WHICH KEEPS US “MAKIN’ OUR WAY THE
            ONLY WAY WE KNOW HOW.”

            THAT FLAG ON TOP OF THE GENERAL LEE MADE A STATEMENT THAT THE VALUES OF THE RURAL SOUTH WERE THE VALUES OF COURAGE AND FAMILY AND GOOD TIMES.

            OUR BELOVED SYMBOL IS NOW BEING ATTACKED IN A WAVE OF POLITICAL CORRECTNESS THAT IS UNPRECEDENTED IN OUR NATION OF FREE SPEECH AND FREE EXPRESSION. ACTIVISTS AND POLITICIANS ARE VILIFYING SOUTHERN CULTURE AND OUR HERITAGE AS BEING BIGOTED AND RACIST. WE KNOW THAT THIS IS NOT THE CASE. AND WE KNOW THAT IN HAZARD COUNTY THERE WAS NEVER ANY RACISM.

            WE ARE ALL THE SAME GOOD PEOPLE TODAY THAT WE WERE LAST WEEK AND
            LAST YEAR AND WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE SHAMED INTO TURNING OUR BACKS ON
            OUR HERITAGE AND OUR CONVICTIONS.

            WE ARE NOT RACISTS. WE DESPISE RACISM AND BIGOTRY. AND WE THINK THE
            PEOPLE WHO ARE CREATING THIS “CULTURAL CLEANSING” ARE THE REAL BIGOTS IN
            THIS STORY.

            WHEN WE SAY OUR FLAG STANDS FOR “HERITAGE, NOT HATE” AND “PRIDE, NOT PREJUDICE”, WE MEAN IT. AND WE BELIEVE THAT OLD SAYING, “YOU CAN’T KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING IF YOU FORGET WHERE YOU CAME FROM.”

          • Ldg Deadgirl

            indeed

          • Ldg Deadgirl

            maybe they are proud that their ancestors had the balls to stand up to a corrupt government and while they may have lost the battle they gave it their all and that is something to be proud of

      • Ariyen

        RESEARCH!!! CLEARLY, YOU DO NOT KNOW YOUR HISTORY.

      • danthrplgst

        When they start paying taxes and kicking in for all the welfare indians get then we’ll take it down but while we’re supporting them, it stays.

        • David Ward

          Of course…kill em, rape their women, take their land, pour whiskey down their throats and then tax em. You’re a lost cause dinasour sweetheart. Change is at your doorstep. Accept and embrace it, or perish. Your kind will be extinct in about a generation from now, unless by some divine intervention, you kids realize they have been being raised by mouth breathers and realize their only hope for survival is to challenge your insecure authority. Your time is up babe. You just haven’t figured it out yet, becuase you’ve been too focused on worrying about a piece of cloth that holds no significant meaning or value. But I’m sure it wi make a lovely shroud at your service one day. Have a fantastic evening maam. Save some possum pie for hubby.

        • Ldg Deadgirl

          where is this welfare indians get cause i am indian and i want in on this….looks to me like white people are at the top of the list with welfare payouts 😉

        • Ldg Deadgirl

          and FYI indians pay taxes just like white folks do only difference is our indian governments dont charge us property tax or car tax but otherwise we pay our taxes just like the rest of you whities do

      • Rebecca Sue McCoy

        Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
        ~Martin Luther King, Jr.

        • milothefierce

          …Said the adulterous wife beating preacher.

        • That Dude

          MLK jr would be rolling in his grave if he had heard that BS speech given by Malik Shabazz in Charleston. Or, for even that matter, seen how the people of Ferguson reacted, or Baltimore.

    • Kathy Chooljian

      Extremely interesting history lesson Mr. Potter. Would you mind if I quoted this on my page? I would of course give all reference to you and where peps could find your excellent lesson.

    • Faik Fasebuk

      “…yet no one is supporting removing it.”
      Don’t you mean, “yet?”
      CNN has already floated the trial balloon to tear down the Jefferson Memorial because Jefferson owned slaves.
      Don’t think these cultural Marxists won’t come for Old Glory somewhere down the road, because that’s exactly their long plan.

    • MarkyMark NdaHouse
      • Veritas

        Ummmm you do know that was the prevailing world view point of Africans over equality? African Slave trading encompassed the east and west not just the Americas, I mean do some research about this rather than make knee jerk reactions.

        • David Ward

          Good thing others thought like we did. For a second, I thought we may have been wrong in condemning the enslavement of people on our soil. But mom, Johnny parents let him do it…

          • Ariyen

            haha… You know the north had slaves too? History is real and if you show one part or believe in it.. then go for it all… Go to the military parks, etc. read more than just snippits. :-)

        • Tapp

          The trans-Atlantic slave trade had completely ended by 1859. The overwhelming majority of the world had already abolished slavery. The US was late to the party and the majority of their slaves at the time of the civil were second and third generation people that had been born into slavery. Slave trading didn’t encompass anything at that time.

          • Veritas

            Ummm not exactly in fact slavery “African Slavery” continued much longer to Brazil. The blackmarket trade in African slavery for the majority slowly dissipated but remains an integral part of Africa even today and human trafficking period continues in the United States. Slaves in the Indian Nations were not free and remained enslaved for sometime.

      • Dennis211

        You do realize that the Stars and Bars is not the actual Confederate flag right??

        • Trace

          “The Army of Tennessee pattern battle flag was issued to units beginning in January 1864.”

          Looks pretty similar to me,,,

        • Carl Shepherd

          Yes it is the Stars and Bars pictured above is the First Confederate flag..although the one above has too many stars
          http://www.usflag.org/confederate.stars.and.bars.html

          • Carl Shepherd

            1st Confederate Flag

          • David Ward

            That was redesigned because those knuckleheads were shooting each other since they couldn’t make the distinction between friend or foe on a smoke filled battlefield. The 2nd try made it appear the confederacy was surrendering of the wind wasn’t blowing because all that could be seen was the white background. Brilliant forethought. By the time they finished the 3rd iteration by adding a red vertical bar to the mostly white flag, the war was over.

          • Dennis211

            From your own source

            The Confederate Battle Flag. The best-known Confederate flag, however, was the Battle Flag, the familiar “Southern Cross”. It was carried by Confederate troops in the field which were the vast majority of forces under the confederacy.
            The Stars represented the 11 states actually in the Confederacy plus Kentucky and Missouri.

            The Stars and Bars was a Battle flag and the Navy Jack for the CSA…..Not a national flag….I should have been more clear but I figured people were smart enough to figure it out

          • Dennis211

            You’re an idiot…..The flag pictured above is the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia…..You’re own web link even shows that….

      • Allison Baen

        That is not the confederate battle flag.

      • BeenThere

        Wrong Flag and incomplete quote a fine example of the American education system.

        The second national flag of the Confederate States of America.

        As a people, we are fighting to maintain the Heaven-ordained supremacy of the white man over the inferior or colored race; a white flag would thus be emblematical of our cause… Such a flag…would soon take rank among the proudest ensigns of the nations, and be hailed by the civilized world as THE WHITE MAN’S FLAG… As a national emblem, it is significant of our higher cause, the cause of a superior race, and a higher civilization contending against ignorance, infidelity, and barbarism. Another merit in the new flag is, that it bears no resemblance to the now infamous banner of the Yankee vandals.

        He was referring to the first national flag of the Confederate States of America. I hope it does not look to familiar.

        The Battle Flag of the Confederacy was designed by William Porcher Miles the 36th Mayor of Charleston, South Carolina.

      • Amanda Trivett

        the whole civil war was based on ending slavery the south lost but they needed a way to remember those who gave their lives fighting! No one want slaves these days but u cant erase history or someone heritage!

        • David Ward

          Amanda, if one needs a banner that represents a failed uprising by their ancestors flying on taxpayer property to remind them of their heritage, then I might suggest they have real identity issues that a piece of cloth won’t fix.

          • 2197_uxo_1

            I suggest sir that all monuments to all wars in this country be destroyed. Sounds stupid all most as stupid as your comment! Deo Vindice!

          • David Ward

            I’m not suggesting anything be destroyed knucklehead. I’m suggesting that it not be flown on taxpayer property. It is not an official flag of anything. It is simply a banner that was used on a battlefield by aside that lost their attempt at secession. Further its not even the correct one that’s representative of that. It is a 4th iteration that wasn’t produced until after the South surrendered. It wouldn’t hurt for you to actually take a moment to reread someone’s words if you don’t understand them the first time around. Trust me when I say, it helps you to look less like a clown.

          • Ariyen

            you can’t dictate what others can and cannot do on their property… There’s laws on that. 😛

          • David Ward

            You are really dumb. Please point out where I said it shouldn’t be able to be displayed on people’s personal property or personal business. I guess you skipped right over the taxpayer part

          • http://www.pominspectionga.com Jerry Emery

            And I suggest that if those good people of the state who are paying the taxes support the notion, that they are entitled to it regardless of your opinion. After all, it is a state government.

          • HarpDiem

            Hate much, Yankee?

          • David Ward

            Lol. I make my disqus comments public in my profile for a reason. It gives people an opportunity to learn who I am, where I come from and why my views are what they are. Do you want to do the leg work yourself to find out or prefer that I set the record straight so you don’t have to? If I do it for you, I’m going to make you look silly. If you do it yourself know one else has to know :)

            Or you could just zoom in on my cap to get a rough idea.

          • David Ward

            What the heck, I’ll make it easy for you. I was born and raised in Cola Town. Irmo actually. I have both an undergrad and grad diploma from Carolina. I moved to FL as an adult but still maintain my home on Lake Murray as well and am up there for usually a week about every 2 mos., more during football season. I own an insurance business her in FL, but in a few years, when my girls are off to college, I will retire back to my SC home and may get a small place in the blue Ridge mountains. I love to hunt, fish and do week long backcountry hikes. I own numerous firearms, and concealed carry licensed her in FL, which extends that priveledge to SC thru reciprocity. I have tried to quit dipping fine cut Cope for years now but still take a can with me into the woods. I am a fiscally conservative business owner that is a registered independent. I can probably be accused as having some racist tendencies in terms of profiling which hey, not proud of but it is what it is, and I try and shield my daughters from it. What I am not is a person that believes that that piece of cloth which represents NOTHING official should be allowed to hang on taxpayer property. I am not foolhardy to believe that you Pelion or Gilbert or Hamburg hicks actually believe it represents your heritage. You are a blatant liar if you say you believe that. It represents your way of saying F you to people that call you out for what you really are. Meaning you have deep insecurities and have yet to figure out how to forge your own way in life. I can identify just fine with my southern heritage without some outdated symbol that simply reminds me that my state can’t get over the fact that they lost an ill-fated secession attempt. I easily move on from such horseshit so I can live life on my terms, not on those of a few true hillbillies that still hold onto something that doesn’t exist. Now….About that whole Yankee thing?

          • mothyham

            mmmmm….daughters, I can’t want to meet them and see how they “feel”

          • mothyham

            guess that shut you up, huh faggot?

          • David Ward

            Says the little man afraid to use a profile pic and real name :) you offer no value, have threatened pedophilia on my daughters so I have no use for you, other than the desire to kill you slowly for doing so. Bye now punk.

          • mothyham

            lol.
            no I didn’t.
            I merely arranged words.

          • Rich Haas

            But who made you or anyone else the one to decide that they must erase their history/heritage and/or redefine their beliefs of or understanding of the meaning of even a piece of cloth! If we were in Scotland each clan has a firm understanding and belief in a simple piece of plaid cloth, and is a strong part of their history!

          • David Ward

            Do the clans all hang their banners on their capital taxpayer grounds?Noone is erasing anything or telling you that you can’t hang it in at home, on your vehicle or private business.

          • Rich Haas

            Well first David the tax-payer grounds is first and foremost a Memorial to the Brave Confederate Soldiers who fought and died for their beliefs!

            Second the People that respect that History/Hermitage are the tax-payers as well!

            Finally since that happening yes people are not wanting it allowed anywhere major retailers stopped selling it, they are taking it off the General Lee and TVland has stopped showing the family show “Dukes of Hazzard County” , these Liberal Activist are trying to errase and change history!

          • That Dude

            I would assume by this comment , that you would also be against any representation of the 10 Commandments?
            On, tax payer funded property of course.

          • David Ward

            Why would you assume that? Are you assuming that the confederate flag offends me? Dont you think I can preserve my own right to my Christian faith, while still recognizing church/state rights and thinking they should be followed? The banner thing is easy. It’s doesn’t correspond to anything on the state govt level, is offensive to many that pay stay taxes, and it is flying on state property. The administration recognized that they don’t have a legal fight to keep it and also recognized that the time had simply arrived. It was always expected to at some point anyway. Surely you knew that..

          • That Dude

            Again, I restate my previous comment, and again based on your argument. To break it down, by your argument, is it the State of South David Ward Carolina? No, it’s not.
            I was not assuming anything, but basing the comment on the precepts you set forth in your comment. And that being, that if it is offensive to a few, then it most be offensive to the masses, and with that precept , which is derived from your blanket type comment, I perceived that if that is true/possible on this account, than, surely it would be true on the case of the 10 Commandments and /or any Religious Symbols on “Taxpayer funded” Property.

      • 2197_uxo_1

        Mr. Thompson designed the first national flag sir not the one depicted, the one shown is the Army of Northern Virginias Battle flag designed by R. E. Lee and P. T. G. Beauregard.

      • HarpDiem

        That’s garbage.

      • batman

        Tell me ,how many in the north didn’t feel the same way.Northern soldiers were forced to fight.They had to be drafted,draft riots,riots against blacks because soldiers had been drafted to fight for them.

      • Ldg Deadgirl

        black people fought in the civil war with the confederate army so tell me were they fighting to keep slaves

    • CharlesDiNatale

      Question,,??:: Did this Confederate Issue start with the shooting in Charleston,??? And, Fred Potter explained it perfectly.. Removing a Veterans ”Old Glory”, regardless of war or conflict, is just poor politics as far as I am concerned..

      • David Ward

        didn’t start with the shooting in Charleston. It was exacerbated because of the shooting in Charleston. The issue has been going on for decades and in 2000, to quell the craziness, they came to some kind of asinine compromise in the hopes of appeasing both sides. that worked really well by the way.

        • Trace

          Wow lil David. You seem to want to skip around like a little girl and try to run all over everyone else’s posts and opinions. You aren’t impressing anyone. I’m pretty sure they see through your demeaning comments and notice your blatant insecurities. If you have an opinion? Express it. Don’t just show up and start attacking people with childish comments. Say your piece and be gone with you. It’s pathetic and sad that you really think anyone cares about what you have to say that you have to oppress every post on here. Such a waist. Get a life.

          Go pick up your legos before daddy steps on them.

        • Veritas

          It might help your position if you actually knew what the Stars and Bars was versus the St. Andrews Cross of the Army of Northern Virginia. Also the flag is posted next to the Confederate monument to honor sacrifices of South Carolina Confederate Soldiers and Sailors, it functions as a war memorial to honor them.

    • Red Cabbage

      Nice propaganda, Fred. You work it like a potter works clay. What’s even more pathetic is the numerous minions below that take you as some sort of scholar.

      “The South was removing Slavery, it was a dead issue”
      I’ve never read such arrogant, belligerent, fraudulence in my life.

      You Sir, couldn’t stuff the pipe of any 5th grade History teacher who, by the way, are obviously much more learned than you ever could appear to be.

      Elongating an argument by providing more information than is necessary is a logical fallacy. I could go on, but I’ll simply end with the greatest insult that can be levied against a fraud such as yourself–you are an apologist for disinformation. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

      Entia Non Sunt Multiplicanda Praeter Necessitatem.

      • Dawn Marie McNamara

        thats because you’re a moron…..I studied the civil war for over 25 years….it is my PASSION…..and everything Mr Potter wrote is absolutely true…….although he forgot to mention over 13% of the Confederate Army was blacks fighting for their HOMES and families…. their black AND white families…….children of white plantation owners were RAISED by black nannies…..there were LETTERS written by FREE blacks stating how many families lived this way….side by side….do your research….interview people and get back to me moron…..The North BURNED most of the proof…..but they couldn’t burn the memories and truths passed down to family members……you sir are a MORON…you don’t WANT to know the TRUTH it doesn’t fit your agenda does it???? Ignorance is bliss…..I guess you must be pretty damn happy……get back to me when you’ve dedicated 25 years to LEARNING your own history….

        • danthrplgst

          Wow…25 years? Wow!! Here’s a cookie…that’s nice.

        • mjnewt0n

          Where did you study? It wasn’t a school because none of this is true. No black soldiers were ever in confederate battle units. zero.

      • fxrsniper

        You sir are the biggest idiot Yankee I’ve ever seen.

      • Ariyen

        Si, research babe. research.

    • Basil Rummer

      If the south was removing slavery, why did they include a clause in their constitution forbidding any laws ever being made against slavery ?

      From the Confederate Constitution:

      Article I, Section 9, Clause 4 prohibited the Confederate government from restricting slavery in any way:

      “No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed.”

      Article IV Section 2(1)
      The citizens of each State shall be entitled to all the privileges and immunities of citizens in the several States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property; and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby impaired.

      Article IV Section 3(3)
      The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several states; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form states to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory, the institution of negro slavery as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected by Congress, and by the territorial government: and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories, shall have the right to take to such territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the states or territories of the Confederate states.

    • Basil Rummer

      This guy seemed to think it was about slavery…
      “The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution […] The general opinion of the men of that day [Revolutionary Period] was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution [slavery] would be evanescent and pass away […] Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.” ~ The Cornerstone Speech, also known as the Cornerstone Address, was an oration delivered by Confederate Vice President Alexander Stephens at the Athenaeum in Savannah, Georgia, on March 21, 1861.

      http://reverbpress.com/justice/irrefutable-proof-civil-war-slavery/

    • Basil Rummer

      “The Confederate flag is directly tied to the Confederate cause, and the Confederate cause was white supremacy. This claim is not the result of revisionism. It does not require reading between the lines. It is the plain meaning of the words of those who bore the Confederate flag across history. These words must never be forgotten. Over the next few months the word “heritage” will be repeatedly invoked. It would be derelict to not examine the exact contents of that heritage.”

      http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/what-this-cruel-war-was-over/396482/

      • BeenThere

        Joseph Matthews PVT Company C 20th Mississippi Infantry released from Camp Douglas by Presidential Pardon

        Isaac Wood UNK Company C 20th Mississippi Infantry released from Camp Douglas by Presidential Pardon

        George Blackwood SGT Company C 3rd Tennessee Infantry released from Camp Douglas by Presidential Pardon

        I have more names from the rolls at Camp Douglas.

        I really do not think these Soldiers were white supremacist, because they were not white

        • David Ward

          Lol. You prefer to look at just the part of the iceberg that is above the surface rather than examine the 95 % under it that influenced what you see, huh?

          • BeenThere

            Your comment makes no sense

            To examine the history of the Civil War one has to research all records pertaining to that period. These records include the slave schools, census records, tax records and soldier records.

            Yes I was like you until I learned to read, research and reach out to descendants and listen to their pieces of history.

          • David Ward

            Lol. You may as well just add the clemson flag next to it on the pole in honor of Ben Tillman, who bragged of his role in killing black uprisers in Hamburg. That way tiger fans can scream they don’t care if gamecock fans are offended. If you need a piece of cloth hanging on taxpayer property to remind you of your heritage, well, you have your own identity issues. This issue is about race plain and simple. Use all the smoke and mirrors you want, doesn’t change the fact. Anyone who says different, are either in extreme denial or simply lying. Most likely the latter. Enlightened people don’t behave like the majority of the people posting here. Which is why may state consistently ranks next to dead last in almost every measurable category that determines self sustainability.

          • BeenThere

            OK you win I am white and I am a racist.

            The United States Census records are forged
            The South Carolina Tax Records are forged
            The Salt River School records are forged
            Veteran records are forged

            Blacks were added to these records to fool the future researcher in believing that this was not a War of slavery and White Supremacy but something else altogether.

            I will note that a South Carolinian has stated that these facts were forged without a shred of evidence.

            Sit on your expensive Raybans

          • David Ward

            Right. I gotcha.

    • Funn Foto

      You are trying to argue the same ole states right verse the right to secede. Sir in the Confederate Constitution it was the states rights to keep, hold and own slaves. Arguing any sum of these points and trying to down play them. The right to own other humans at any point is mute. There is no Slavery or Race Light. The symbols and ideals whether large or small still matter. So any and all of it matters. And to imagine the picture you wish to paint of it was oh it was not that bad. Come on sir. If you had generations of your family torn apart in any way shape of form it would traumatize you and your ancestors. You see the sympathizers are trying to hold on to what really. The Heritage of hate and the ideals of what. States rights which at its core was to own slaves if it didn’t matter they would not have put it in their constitution.

      The Confederate Constitution added a clause about the question of
      slavery in the territories (the key Constitutional debate of the 1860
      election) by explicitly stating that slavery is legally protected in the
      territories.

      Article IV Section 3(3)The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress
      shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the
      inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying
      without the limits of the several states; and may permit them, at such
      times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form states to be
      admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory, the institution
      of negro slavery as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be
      recognized and protected by Congress, and by the territorial government:
      and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories,
      shall have the right to take to such territory any slaves lawfully held
      by them in any of the states or territories of the Confederate states.

    • keith

      What you need to do is read what the designer of the confederate flag said what the flag represented.

      • Ariyen

        and you need to read the real truth behind the north and the south on slavery, etc. not just the designer.

    • David Ward

      So given all you just said, especially the part about the flag being no more than one that was carried on a battlefield by the northern viginia army, and not representative of the other states, why the opposition of the removal of it from flying as a symbol on taxpayer grounds. If it is as you say, why take issue with storing it as an historical emblem of an era long past, rather than continue to fly it in the face of so many that take offense to it, that also happen to be taxpaying citizens. Your non offense over it, doesn’t trump someone else’s offense over it. So if it isn’t of earth shattering significance to you, why not graciously accomodate the wishes of those that feel pain over it. My day to day won’t change one bit by its removal, and knowing that it’s removal offers the potential for greater harmony, in my opinion, it’s a no brainer. If I need a flag that actually represents a failed secession to fly on publicly paid for property to confirm my heritage, then I have very real identity issues. Don’t you think?

    • Donna Price

      Love this comment…you really did some research on the flag and showed the truth of the Northern colonies!

    • DapperDon

      Beautiful!! May I use this? It is the most accurate portrayal of what the War Between the States was really all about.

    • Alexander Sippel

      You are so correct Fred

    • Dawn Marie McNamara

      FINALLY!! Someone who actually KNOWS history!!! Thank you Mr Potter!!

    • danthrplgst

      That’s some nice revisionist history there. Where did you cut and paste that from? Institute for Historical Review? Stormfront?

      • Ariyen

        go visit Military parks, then speak.

    • UPSETVET

      The Confederate Flag is not the problem just like guns are not the problem. The problem is the liberals that want to control everything in America. They want to be the plantation owners and we their slaves.

    • Vinsanity8872

      “South Carolina was seceding, it explained,
      due to the “increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding
      States to the institution of slavery,” and the election of a president
      who believed “that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.” ” Rebutal?

    • http://www.obamasucks.tv/ John – Atlanta

      > in particular Robert E. Lee, freed all their slaves by 1862,

      That is called smart military tactics. You never want the enemy behind your front lines or within your castle. That makes it tougher to protect the ones you love. He did not trust his own slaves, rightfully so.

      Besides, he knew the loser would likely lose their property (which he did) and they were a liability, including to feed.

      • Ariyen

        north had slaves too. they didn’t free theirs until two years after war… Should do more research… interesting to learn on what ya don’t know.

        • http://www.obamasucks.tv/ John – Atlanta

          Your response does not even make any sense to what I posted. Show me where, in the middle of the Civil War that Robert E Lee said slavery was wrong, that he regretted it, and that was why he let his slaves go free. Before President Lincoln sat in his chair.

          Many slave owners let their slaves go free, once the union troops where deep behind their lines, because it made sense from a tactical sense, especially since most of the fighting men were engaged away from home.

          Having two or three woman to defend your property with outdated muzzle loaders against many young angry black male slaves is not an ideal tactical situation. Plus you have to feed them.

          Slaves were set free to secure the home front and in the hopes of being a burden to the Union side. Which they were.

          Maybe you should learn something:

          ► Curse of the Zeroes – Part 4 – Zechariah 13 – what kills the whore (aka USA) of Babylon?

          • Ariyen

            Proudly. http://www.scv.org/ – their history has two links – one to an actual scanned book – And course the parks are another thing to go visit. Those things hold more information than any book there is.

    • James Steinbrecher

      Southern Cross November 1861. Slaves free Jan. 1863. Both during the Civil War that was about States Rights. By the looks of things, we may see another one soon.

    • mjnewt0n

      it’s amazing how much is wrong in this rant. amazing. the ignorance or the lack of knowledge is extraordinary.

      • Ariyen

        *yawns* research much? Nah, doesn’t seem like it.

    • paulinsc

      You’d think from all the backlash that Haley had called for a complete ban on the flag – which, of course, she didn’t. Moving the flag off the Capitol grounds is not even in the same conversation as a ban. In fact, she encouraged people who wish to fly the flag on private property to do so. So, let’s try and get some perspective here, shall we?

      • SandyT

        Maybe not, but it did provide impetus for the flag haters to go after the flag in the other southern states, and then call for statues and monuments to be removed, streets and schools named for Confederate heroes to be changed, and the ultimate, Louis Farrakhan jumped on the bandwagon calling for the American flag to be taken down. I guess that’s okay with you, too?

        • paulinsc

          Sandy, you were fine up until your final rhetorical question – which was just a cheap shot. First of all, Louis Farrakhan is so irrelevant I can’t believe that he still gets any press. Secondly, the American flag is the official flag of the United States, obviously, so it is the one that flies at the top of the pole. The state flag is next. Stop me if any of this is confusing… It’s apples and oranges. The Confederate Battle flag is not an official flag of any existing governing entity, so it’s not appropriate to fly it permanently on the Statehouse grounds. This argument has been going on ever since 1962, when the Democrats hoisted the flag above the dome to commemorate the Civil War Centennial. It was only supposed to be there for one year. Guess what? They never took it down. The fact that suddenly there’s this knee-jerkism happening everywhere is sadly the type of country we now live in, but I don’t think you can blame Nikki Haley for that. This controversy started long before she came on the scene.

    • treebird

      Actually Louis Farrakhan is advocating for the removal of the American flag.

    • Brad Tuor
    • Jim Myers

      Here are the actual documents that SC filed to secede from the USA. Slave/slavery is mentioned 18 times. If any “historian” says that slavery was NOT the root cause for the civil war, they are just plain stupid!

      http://www.civil-war.net/pages/southcarolina_declaration.asp

    • http://www.pominspectionga.com Jerry Emery

      The argument against the Stars and Stripes will be the next one. Farrakhan already pretty much said it.

    • Redorblack Nigelbottom

      Not a bad job at revisionist history.. to bad that documents like this can’t be made to go away… I am just quoting the end section that states it is all about slavery and the horrid idea that people are people, not property.

      “Confederate States – Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union”

      “These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions. The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.

      We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.

      For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the forms of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that “Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free,” and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

      This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.”

      • Redorblack Nigelbottom

        BTW, that was South Carolina that wrote that before firing the opening salvos of the Civil War at Fort Sumter. Guess some of their citizens want another ass kicking.

    • William Rudacille

      Very well said and stated sir. You are exactly right and I’m going to copy your post and put it on my wall on Facebook if that is ok.

    • disqus_6ifxqvwzzY

      So what? What the damn thing meant then is not an issue. What it is now is a symbol of racial intolerance and bigotism. It is offensive to a large number of black folks and a hell of a lot of us white people, too. Take your racist apologies back to the 19th Century where they belong.

    • kduke

      What is the weather like there on your “alternate history planet?”

      As the other comments thoroughly state, the people in charge AT THE TIME, and IN THEIR OFFICIAL STATEMENTS made to the world and “for history to remember,” stated clearly that it was ALL ABOUT SLAVERY. These were not post-war northern revisionists. These were the people driving the secession bus.

      That should be the end of this discussion. Any further arguments should never mention “read history” unless you just want to intentionally lie to cover up a story you know to be false.

    • Riley Schenck

      Abraham Lincoln stated that the Civil War was about saving the union and not about slavery, BUT he also stated that the war would not have happened without the existence of slavery. Take this quote from when he invited a group of black ministers to the White House to try and convince them of the need to send America´s African American population back to Africa to colonize Liberia:

      “I need not recount to you the effects upon white men, growing out of the institution of Slavery. I believe in its general evil effects on the white race. See our present condition—the country engaged in war!—our white men cutting one another’s throats, none knowing how far it will extend; and then consider what we know to be the truth. But for your race among us there could not be war, although many men engaged on either side do not care for you one way or the other. Nevertheless, I repeat, without the institution of Slavery and the colored race as a basis, the war could not have an existence.”

      As Lincoln alludes to in the quote, plenty of white men fighting for the north could not have cared less for the plight of blacks in America, and so if he´d stated that the war was about slavery then surely it would have been a lot harder to get these men to risk dying for the cause. But the key issue from which the Civil War arose very clearly is the issue of slavery. Both sides said so themselves. On a side note, it´s pretty interesting reading some of these old Lincoln quotes as many of them are so incredibly racist it´s cringeworthy stuff just to read. I´m sure a lot of it was politics (the majority of americans were very racist at that time and he had to appeal to the average voter), but it looks like he was certainly more racist than history presents him to be, and does show how revisionist history taught in school can be.

      The quote above (along with a lot of other interesting ones from that address to those ministers): http://quod.lib.umich.edu/l/lincoln/lincoln5/1:812?rgn=div1;view=fulltext

    • Vassie Welbeck-Browne

      It sure did fly over the heads and shoulders of those (in and out of white sheets) who committed extreme violence (including hanging) against black people. Additionally, it is amazing how quickly the very same type of people come to its defense today.

    • Rev. Mitchell

      Wow! Revisionist history alive and well I see! If Lincoln was so concerned about the Southern cash flow drying up, then where do you suppose the financing for the North’s massive war effort came from? And since you like to ‘quote’ Lincoln, pleas familiarize yourself with his 2nd inaugural address, where he clearly lays the cause of the war at the feet of the ‘peculiar institution’ of slavery. And although it is true that the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia never flew over the cause of slavery, it did fly in treasonous rebellion against the United States, and that is reason enough for it to never fly in public venues again. It belongs in a museum sir. By the way, it was revived ‘officially’ in the south during the run-up to the Civil Rights movement of the 50’s and 60’s. It was the South’s official answer to civil rights agenda, which simply proposed that “all men are created equal”, something that the South incontrovertibly denied to people of color. So that banner was raised to remind the North, and the Black populace that such measures were going to be resisted. Now, that makes it a banner representing racism, Sir. Your feeble attempt at whitewashing and revising history does not stand up against the cold hard facts.

    • JoseCuervo

      Every state that belonged to the Confederacy flew the flag and the whole point of the Civil war was because the South wanted to keep their slaves rights. It is right there withing the Secession declarations for each state… it is the reason why Booth killed Lincoln… History proves you wrong.

    • Joe B.

      The “cornerstone” speech also didn’t seem to support your position. It was given by the Vice President of the glorious conferderacy. It was hailed as the confederate declaration of independence by the vast majority of the confederacy. And Lee freed most of hos slaves but kept a few for personal use. You are correct that economics had a large impact on startingbthe war what you are failing to address is that 87 percent of the souths economy was slave based and as such economics and slavery in the south were one in the same. Sort of like the “we fought for states rights” view which ignores the right in question which was the “right” to own slaves. Its amazing how people spin all the reasons for the war while ignoring the declarations of each state as they left the USA.Where were all those resources and riches during the war? One of the reasons the south was defeated was their lack of resources and inferior arsenal. They were far better shots with crappier rifles. Necessity is the …… of invention. Not a ton of curtting edge tech is needed while sipping mint julips and sweet tea in antibellum dresses while your slaves tend to your every whim, sexual whims included. Every country has a similar great atrosity in its history. Japan screwed china. Germany screwed Europe. Etc. Etc. The difference with them is that they understand that they were wrong and although they dont erase their history they also don’t celebrate slavery, rape and genocide. There were cases of slavery I. The south through thr fifties. Remember jim crow and the prison state. The south found one way after another to keep slavery alive. IT WAS NOT AN INTERRACIAL UTOPIA. Check your history. Interracial marriage was illegal in many southern states of the confederacy clear into the sixties and even the seventies. Even today their are segregated proms, schools and golf courses. Even staff sanctioned seggregation in a sorority at Bama. The north is far from a racial paradise but when it comes to race they are decades ahead of the soutb.

    • Ember1

      And then it was reinvented/rediscovered and used as a symbol for racists in the 1960’s to show their opposition to the idea of equality and desegregation. So it went from being the flag of an army willing to kill and die to keep people as property to the symbol of people who were willing to lymch and burn to keep people as inferiors in the eyes of the law. It was nothing in between. It jumped from racism, as a minor flag, to racism as a popular symbol.

    • sffoghorn

      Flying the flag of an army that the US defeated in war is practically treasonous.

    • raman

      It was flown by the KKK and several states to protest the civil rights movement, namely desegregation. It is a symbol of hatred and rebellion and it is one of the most Un-American symbols in existence. The South needs to get over the fact that they lost and will never regain the glory days of lynchings and slavery.

    • Tom Trevor

      Slavery was definitely one of the reason for civil war at least to the North. Not the only reason , but one the reasons.

    • AmateurEditor

      “Historians, real historians, not your 5th grade history teacher, have studied in detail the causes of the Civil War, and it wasn’t slavery”

      Could you list a few ‘real’ historians who say it wasn’t about slavery?
      I’d be very interested in reading their research and papers published in peer reviewed journals.

  • Marvintyson

    A ballot referendum for secession, in South Carolina or any other State, would be the most viable way to restore freedom and a republican form of government across the country.
    The same people who, in their ignorance, decry such a referendum in S. Carolina were probably cheering wildly as it happened time and time again around the world. It’s a common thing, folks.
    At the end of WWII there were only 55 nations. 55! Today there are 203. Those nations came into being almost without exception through peaceful ballot initiatives.
    If you were in favor of Estonians, Lithuanians, Indians, Georgians, Ukrainians, et al. charting their own course into the future it is extremely hypocritical to deny that same right to your fellow Americans.
    Look at what else has happened every time such a ballot has been voted on; not only was self-determination achieved where it passed, but even where it failed! In Scotland, where the referendum recently failed, Whitehall granted them almost complete autonomy to gain that “no” vote and granted the same to Wales and Northern Ireland as well.
    The same would result here regardless of the outcome of the vote. We would no longer be ruled over by a group of elitists in DC, or their minion courts, but be free to chart our own course.

    • David Ward

      but how do you propose replacing the 1.35 in subsidies given back to SC for every dollar SC spends? Secession always sounds good when you don’t get your way, but the fact is there is no way my home state could exist on it’s own legs. I guess since so many drive 4x4s, who needs pot hole free highways anyway.

      • Marvintyson

        David, in fact South Carolina does not get $1.35 back for each dollar it sends. This is a common misconception that simply doesn’t hold water.
        Here is the reality; South Carolina sends $1.00 in real money to the Central Government. In return she gets a portion of that dollar back, plus bogus money that is really “debt dollars” that South Carolina herself will one day be responsible for.
        In other words; it would be like you making a withdrawal from your bank and still owing them money. It sounds good for the politicians on both ends. The State pols can say “see what we’re doing for you!” and the feds can say “we do this for everyone!” But the fact is, that’s not really your money if you have to pay it back some day.
        Every State in this Union could “make it” just fine if not for the wasteful spending of our government. Do you not think these 148 newly independent States around the world had the same issues, yet they all make it.
        South Carolina has a stand alone economy roughly equal to that of Sweden. Do you think anyone in Sweden lays awake at night worrying about how they’ll make it without Federal dollars?

        • David Ward

          Marvin, you can make ledger transfers look anyway you want them to but the fact is in real time, those are real dollars. By the way, who is SC going to get to replace BMW, Adidas, Robert Bosch Industries, ZF group and the many other large domestic and international companies that pour hundreds of millions of annual dollars into the state revenue and employs thousands of native Carolinians, the minute they pull out if a formal secession is declared? Do you for one second think the shareholders of those companies would allow them to stay? Come on man…. Your Sweden argument is nonsensical. and you know it.

          • Marvintyson

            David, the facts,simply don’t support your comments. There has not been any mass exodus of business from any newly Independent State in all the world. In fact, the oposit is true. An example is Estonia. They declared independence a little over 20 years ago with high unemployment and the lowest literacy rate in Europe. Today their literacy rate is among the highest, and their unemployment rate is ZERO!
            OH, and BMW built a new plant there AFTER independence.
            Not one of 148 newly Independent States has experienced economic meltdown because of independence. You’ll have to find something else to scare folks with. That dog won’t hunt.
            I have studied, written, and taught this subject for years. Read my new book, “Fall of the,Western Empire” on Amazon. It can give you verifiable facts about srcession, not propaganda.

          • David Ward

            Marvin, are you from SC? because it doesn’t sound like it. You do realize that their ranking at the bottom of almost every meaningful benchmark of what is considered necessary for long term self sustainability has been largely unchanged since, well forever. The state slogan can almost be, “Hey at least we beat out Mississippi!” Well, being 49 out of 50 is something i guess. and yet, i am still going to return to my home there when i retire. because, even though i will walk among numb nuts sometimes when i venture out into places like Gilbert, it’s still where i was raised and want to live. Good news is that things are changing and as they do, kids will get a little smarter, economies and infrastructure will improve and I won’t have to keep having these dialogues one day. But if you think major corporations that play on a global scale and answer to worldwide shareholders who don’t favor current South Carolina mentality will stand by and watch their portfolios take a hit as a result, then maybe you should revisit your reading selection choices.

          • Marvintyson

            No David, I’m not from South Carolina. I am, however, an avid student of secession, it’s benefits and consequences, who h you obviously are not. You are basing your comments on pure emotion.
            There is no more reason to believe any corporation would level the State because of Independence than there is to believe they moved there because of statehood. These corporations moved there because of the available quality workforce, infrastructure, ability to transport goods, and available land. None of this is going to change if the State chooses independence. And no board or logical investor is going to insist on a pull out any more than they did from any of the other 148 States that chose independence. They are there to make money, nothing else, and that ability to make money will still be there. In fact, it will likely improve once the crippling effects of over regulation are removed, just as has been the case elsewhere.

          • David Ward

            Right. Because I’m sure the board members of those companies that represent very broad and diverse investors will laugh off their shareholders concerns and are probably wondering why Walmart, Amazon, Warner Bros., and other huge corporate names are being so silly as to distance themselves from this circus act. I’m sorry, I just don’t see how you can use Estonia or many of the other now sovereign nations you refer to as a correlative example. Most are European and of the Mediterranean regions and those lines of delineation occur with fairly regular frequency, historically speaking. I think it’s a stretch to apply those examples to the U.S. in this day and age. And the only really relevant fact is that, well…the federal government won’t let them do it. A bunch of rednecks jumping up and down saying they’re going to do it anyways, does not a revolution make. A successful one anyways

          • Trace

            Wow lil David. You seem to want to skip around like a little girl and try to run all over everyone else’s posts and opinions. You aren’t impressing anyone. I’m pretty sure they see through your demeaning comments and notice your blatant insecurities. If you have an opinion? Express it. Don’t just show up and start attacking people with childish comments. Say your piece and be gone with you. It’s pathetic and sad that you really think anyone cares about what you have to say that you have to oppress every post on here. Such a waist. Get a life.

            Go pick up your legos before daddy steps on them..

          • Trace

            Wow lil David. You seem to want to skip around like a little girl and try to run all over everyone else’s posts and opinions. You aren’t impressing anyone. I’m pretty sure they see through your demeaning comments and notice your blatant insecurities. If you have an opinion? Express it. Don’t just show up and start attacking people with childish comments. Say your piece and be gone with you. It’s pathetic and sad that you really think anyone cares about what you have to say that you have to oppress every post on here. Such a waist. Get a life.

            Go pick up your legos before daddy steps on them.

          • Trace

            Wow lil David. You seem to want to skip around like a little girl and try to run all over everyone else’s posts and opinions. You aren’t impressing anyone. I’m pretty sure they see through your demeaning comments and notice your blatant insecurities. If you have an opinion? Express it. Don’t just show up and start attacking people with childish comments. Say your piece and be gone with you. It’s pathetic and sad that you really think anyone cares about what you have to say that you have to oppress every post on here. Such a waist. Get a life.

            Go pick up your legos before daddy steps on them…

      • 1grayrebel

        They would if the 12 other states would join them!

        • David Ward

          and i would be a multimillionaire if i had picked the correct powerball numbers.

          • 1grayrebel

            And you’re not? The way you’ve been boasting I figured you had more money than Jed Clampett.

          • David Ward

            I may dress like him at times but I am certainly not wealthy. I try to live below my means, so that I can enjoy a property in the mountains when I retire and ensure that my kids have all of their financial needs taken care of thru the age of 22 when they finish school. They will have the next 30 years or so of their lives to make their own money. That’s just the way I think works best for my family. I am not in opposition to that banner. Only where it is currently being displayed. That’s all.

    • gemcrae

      I support the idea to Secede again let’s go the out come will be different this time around

      • 1grayrebel

        I’m with you all the way!

      • David Ward

        I support giving North Dakota to all you that want to secede. win win for everyone.

        • George Allen

          Hey let’s not pick on North Dakota. I was born there

  • Robert Louis Sanders

    I
    am so glad to see that now according to the Politicians and the News Media the
    Confederate Flag walked into a Church in Charleston, SC pulled out a gun and
    Killed those Nine People! That is the way you people making it sound. Well this
    boy wanted to be immortalized in History and now the Politicians and News Media
    are gonna do that for him making him the reason History was changed and the
    Confederate Flag Fell over South Carolina!

    Well
    what is next? The Politicians going to make it Illegal for you to fly the Stars
    and Bars in your front yard or on your vehicle or where ever you desire too? You
    people with the way things are in this country now if you give the Government an
    INCH they will try to take a MILE Look at the what is happening we used to be a
    nation of laws to protect people and their rights and privacy and move toward a
    nation that takes away those rights and makes laws to protect the rights and
    needs of the Government and Politicians! I read an article that posted the ratio
    of shooting between police officers to ethnic groups and it clearly indicated
    that Police shot and killed three times the White people to Black but the only
    issues the news media and Politicians make a big deal on is White Officer
    shooting Black Individuals! Maybe it is the News Media and Politicians who keep
    the Racist Rant going to keep the people not seeing what is happening in our own
    Countries Government!

    I
    would never have thought of using the Stars and Bars as my Profile picture but
    now it will be since Nikki
    Haley and U.S.
    Senator Lindsey Graham decided to stick their nose in the removal
    of them from the Confederate Monument instead of spend just as much time trying
    to figure out who Defaced the Monument. That is a HELL of a lot more RACIAL than
    the FLAG flying over it! But I forgot it is only RACIAL if a White Person does
    it! If it is a Black Person they are just the Voice of a Repressed Social Group
    in America! I agree totally! It would appear the North has Forgotten what happens when you push the Southern People into a Corner with no way out! We are TIRED OF BEING THE BAD GUYS AND PUSHED AROUND! Robert Louis Sanders

    • Joey Ethridge

      That isn’t the “stars and bars” flag, that is the battle flag from Robert E. Lee’s army. The real “stars and bars” is very similar to the first U.S. flag only it had 2 red and one white stripe and 9 stars in a circle on a field of blue.

  • Elray InArkansas

    Can you recall your govneror there in SC ?

  • Mickey Mouse

    The Federal Gov will use the same strategy they used 150 years ago. A petition isn’t any good. A hard vote amongst the residents is the way to go. But the US Gov will use the $$$$ as a way to break it. To get them inline as they like to refer to it. Just as they did 150 years ago they’ll say SC wants slaves again or some spin. Lincoln said it himself “A nation divided can not stand” The north could not survive today without the south and it couldn’t 150 years ago. Agriculture and manufacturing is now in the south. DC,NY,Mass, and all those little states with people packed in like sardines could not survive without the souths or mid west food and resources. They couldn’t grow enough food to feed those packed little states.

    • zane

      Don’t forget the Majority of the oil refineries as well….

  • RVABREAD22

    The flag doesn’t belong to South Carolina. Its the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia. I am glad at least there are some people , however, standing up for states rights again. Taking down statues and banning flags is exactly what terrorists groups such as Isis do. We need to not fall for this. Support our heritage!

    • David Ward

      then if it doesn’t belong to SC, and it’s just a flag from another state, why the uproar by you? especially since keeping it will most likely put a major dent in the states outside revenue sources. it’s easy to jump up and down when your mad, it’s harder to have the foresight to research what the later impact will be. then you will look even more foolish later when begging to take it down so that you can bring back that lost revenue.

      • southrnprincess

        How much does the JIDF pay you to comment?

        • https:// Shillteam6

          Roughly $200 of taxpayers money.

          • David Ward

            that is what i am supposed to get, but cause folk like you cheat on your taxes, i reluctantly settle for less. pick me up a bag of pork rinds next time you stop by grammas and we’ll call it even.

          • https:// Shillteam6

            I think we got off on the wrong foot, because you spread facts and insult these hillies poor brains I pay you money.

            Ever thought of joining Shill Team 6?

          • David Ward

            :)

          • southrnprincess

            An hour?

          • David Ward

            That’s righteous bucks ain’t it sunshine? That kind of coin could probably save you a weeks worth or more of having to put up with pole rash I bet.

        • David Ward

          what do you mean princess? By the way, i was born and raised in Cola town. Attended Irmo High, graduated from USC and still maintain a home in the area though i have lived in Central FL for the last half of my life. i am there every 2 months or so and keep a very close finger on the pulse there. normal adult friends of mine there that are also business owners, who happen to be somewhat racist, and probably the same could be said of me if i am being honest, all think this is the stupidest thing that can happen and makes the state look, well…like you people commenting here, when the fact of the matter is, the type of people commenting here have almost no impact on the direction the state takes. ANYONE, and i mean ANYONE that thinks secession would be called for, much less work, is simply either been asleep the last 25 years or dumb. most likely a combination of the two. Get your blonde head out of your pretty little behind princess and step outside the palace gates for a change. you might be surprised at what lies beyond. You sound like a Clemson IPTAY girl. but…you are kinda cute so at least there’s that :)

          • 1grayrebel

            Why don’t you keep your ass in Florida.

          • David Ward

            because i own homes in both states and i can come and go as i choose. making smart choices and understanding which battles are worth fighting in the name of self preservation allows one to do those things. Hanging on to outdated, unnecessary, irrelevant ideas just because your grandpappy’s grandpappy thought that way, is what keeps one from being able to make their own choices.

    • NJK

      The left and ISIS are of the same mentality. Totalitarians. Look at the creepy Black Panthers. They need to be thrown in prison in 2017.

      • OldNYFirefighter

        They need to be eliminated!

  • Janet King

    Please tell me where to go sign petition, I am ready to seceed, TRIED OF THR NAACP BULLYING DO AWAYNWITH LIKE THE KKK, BOTH ARE HATE GROUPS, THE SOUTH SHALL RISE AGAIN

    • David Ward

      hope you have good trapping and fishing skills Janet. Because based on the extra .35 cents SC gets back on top of every dollar the state spends, i fear you and yours will probably starve to death.

      • southrnprincess

        Take out the blacks and the South far exceeds in output.

        • David Ward

          yeah, cause all those white folk living in places like Pelion and Gilbert and Monks Corner and Gaston…. sure don’t put a drain on state resources. i lived there half my life sweetheart. you ain’t gonna be able to pull your tattered security blanket over these eyes.

        • David Ward

          so now after hundreds of years that you no longer can enjoy their free services, it’s time to put them curbside with your kids dirty diapers, right?

        • https:// Shillteam6

          FFS I work at a grocery store, any idea what percentage of food stamps are used by white people?

          About 80% of every WIC and EBT transactions are whites.

      • Boss Ross

        I’ve been stuck in a plane on the runway. Thank you so much for the entertainment! You sir are great! Will catch up on this later…..

  • Hassan Noor

    I suggest that you go one step above seceding front the Union. Those in South Carolina who are favour should leave the Country and go back to their ancestors homeland, the Native Indians will be more than happy.

    • DarkJ

      your reply has holes. who? what? Huh? all southern states have a secession clause in their statehood. so if a state doesn’t like the way the country is being run they have the right and ability to remove themselves from the country. It’s like being part of a group and suddenly you don’t like what they’re selling so you leave. Or would you rather our government be run like a gang, blood in:blood out?

      • ELIZA

        That’s what I was thinking.

  • Carson Ferreira

    You won’t be missed.

  • Rick Johnson

    The United States Flag over of a slave nation for 85 years. Are youi going to call for its removal as well?

  • Jason Burrow

    http://www.jaysonveley.com/professors-say-u-s-flag-is-a-symbol-of-racism-should-be-taken-down/ here. Lets just join this bandwaggon too you ignorant fools.

  • Albert Martin

    Isn’t this the same governor that a few days ago said something like “We may never know what drives a person to do horrible things like this.” when every news outlet was showing his FB page, etc., where he detailed exactly why he was doing this?

  • Anita G Flippo Hitchcock

    There is no connection between the flag and the shooting of 9 innocent people except in the killers mind.

  • George Lyda

    I’m all for secession

    • southrnprincess

      Amen! From Alabama

    • gemcrae

      Amen 10 times over

    • David Ward

      Trust me, we’re all for you leaving SC as well. Glad we can find common ground there.

      • George Lyda

        David, I wish now that your daddy had pulled out, rolled over and shot you on the wall, uneducated folk who think they know it all is such a bane to the existence of those of us who do!

        • David Ward

          Apparently, the problem with your wishes, is that you wish for them after the fact. You wish I wasn’t born. Too late. You wish the South had been successful in seceeding. Too late. You wish you had a prettier profile picture. Yup, too late on that one as well. Please don’t wish for me to win the lottery. Cause we already know what the outcome will be. I however, do wish you a life of good judgement and classy behavior. Oops…too…late.

          • George Lyda

            Born can be handled, the present discussion is a future secession, not one from 150 years ago, that profile picture is my ancestor who served the CSA. Obviously your literacy proves you to have a sub-standard IQ since you can’t keep up with the conversation. Either put on your big girl panties and get in the game or go home before I have to turn this keypad over to my cat who is way too smart for you boy.

          • David Ward

            I normally take threats to my life as pronounced in your opening sentence seriously. But then you told me you were a cat man. Now I think I can go to sleep with both eyes closed :)

          • George Lyda

            Death threat, nope, nature just naturally weeds out and cleans the gene pool, I’ve got you figured as surely an inbred boy from your lack of intelligence, reckon incest runs pretty strong in your bloodline. I reckon.
            I remember seeing an old X-Files show about your family and their ways. If we did pull out of Uncle Sams slavery nation, you’re making me feel confident of victory if you’re the best the opposition has to put on the field. Now go to bed, your sister’s getting antsy.

          • David Ward

            I seem to have gotten you all worked up Nancy. By the way, I own my own insurance business, I own a home in SC and FL, I received both my under grad and grad diplomas at Carolina, my daughters will have already had both their colleges paid for by the time they get there, with the deal being if they earn a full boat academic scholarship, they each get to keep the money and put it in a retirement building fund. I will retire in 3 years at the age of 53 and will be moving back to my place on Lake Murray in SC. I will do all these things with the knowledge that if I needed a banner that represents the loser side of the war to remind me ofy heritage, then I have my own identity issues and would not have done much with my life to date. They build museums to house relics of eras gone by. Well…that and double wide apparently. But i guess those that will throw tantrums over a tattered piece of cloth, and who also watch crime shows about aliens and who feel the need to make their profile pic that of their granpappy’s granpapp know best. Pick me up some fat back and pork rinds when you stop by your mommas this Sunday please, after you play your part in the local Pelion reenactment :)

          • George Lyda

            David, go drink a few beers and go to bed and sleep it off, you’re infringing on my reading time. Yes, I can read, Mensa since 1999, (154) in case you’re curious. Later!

  • Cedric Freeman

    To all the delusioned…the financial bastions are to the north. The largest population centers are still to the north. The largest ports…you guessed…look up north.

  • Cedric Freeman

    Let’s put the blame where it belongs…Canada.

  • Kelvin Johnson

    Lol…sad how people react to being pulled into the present,living off false pride in a twisted history.I could really careless about a faded,sad attempt to hold on to southern pride BS..but really know history.And not the history made up and told over a beer.

    • DarkJ

      i know you could care less. that tells me you care. (learn your grammatics). the point has nothing to do with the flags past. It is about what it means to the people who care about it. For me, Born and raised in the north mind you, I see it as a symbol of when people were willing to stand against the government in an attempt to save their ways of life. The confederate states of america were a nation unto themselves, and the United states of america sought to invade and overthrow them just because they had different views on how to live. Think of all the places the USA has overthrown, do we allow them to still fly their flags? yes. do we oppress them and force them into submittance in order to inact our own president to govern their nation? No. Allow these people thier right to believe in thier nation, the one before the perversion of their ways of life happened. despite being forced into a political system they didn’t want and being dragged around by our country’s quick fix laws that don’t put future thought into what happens to the inhabitants who are forced to obey those laws. I love our country, but I despise what our government has become. and that flag is the only symbol that keeps a flood-gate of proud americans from starting yet another civil war, which btw is what our enemy nations want so they can choose a side and lay claim to our land and people as payment for assistance. Just something to think about.

  • Roger Smith

    Does this govener and mayor realize that the American people voted them into office and will be the same people that vote them out ? Just because a few don’t like seeing the Confederate battle flag doesn’t mean it should be taken down !!! What’s going to happen when a few start saying they don’t like seeing the American flag ? Are you same idiots going to try and take it down ? That flag got its reputation of racism from hate groups that put it out front and gave it that bad meaning and disgraced it !! Start doing something to those jerks and leave the flag that a lot of our families died for alone and let it fly high and proud !!!!

  • LandBuyer

    If it weren’t for idiots, I wouldn’t feel smart. Secession, seriously?

  • Well fiddle dee-dee! ‘Ah do de’clay-uh, the winds of change are again blowing through our fields of hate.

    Jeff Davis is long gone and buried, Precious.

    Feel free to visit his grave in Hollywood Cemetery.

    I’m sure even he could appreciate the irony.

  • Steve Hulen

    Let’s make something very CLEAR the Sons of Confederate Veterans is not a social or a political group. The Sons of Confederate Veterans was founded in 1896 and is one of the oldest Hereditary Societies in America. It is made up of patriotic men and is a 501 (c) organization dedicated to ensuring that the memory of their Confederate ancestors remains alive and unvarnished. The SCV is also committed to educating the public about the history of the 1861 – 1865 period and preserving Confederate monuments, graves and artifacts. The SCV is not affiliated with any other organization and specifically rejects anyone who advocates the overthrow of the US government, or is knowingly a member of any known hate group.

  • garry

    I feel that if the confederate flag is bein banned for racial discrimination so should the American flag ..the kkk uses both flags in their rallies.and not to mention what we did to the indians mexicians and the spanish american war this counrty is being ran buy a bunch of new age hitlers ..welcome to nazified america and its only gunna get worse

    • southrnprincess

      Communist America you mean

    • https:// Shillteam6

      New age Hitlers? Nazi America? Child you need to sit down with a book and read about what the the nazi’s were and what they did. Or talk to a WWII Veteran and see just how wrong you are.

      • Nick James

        The NATIONAL SOCIALISTS were actually a lot less cruel and power hungry than our current federal government. They also violated individual liberties of those with German blood born in Germany far less than our government violates the liberties of those born in America. I’ve done my research, now do yours instead of lying and conjuring bugbears from history to spook your political opponents. Even the dumbest fool can see that this country is in a deep recession, jobs are disappearing faster than they are created, we’re not paying off our debt, and we don’t even care about those suffering the most anymore and instead invest billions into giving refugees and immigrants cushy lives free of work or obligation(this is considered freeing them from racism for some reason..)

  • ChrisLoos

    “There is absolutely no link between the Charleston massacre and the Confederate Memorial Banner. Don’t try to create one.”

    http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/17832/production/_83760369_flowerpower.jpg

  • DarkJ

    the flag is, in my knowledge and understanding, not now nor has it ever been about racism or hatred. it stood for standing against unfair government and the refusal to conform to a way of life. there are many other flags/symbols around the world that stand for hatred, racism, and tyranny. the Nazi emblem, the ISIS emblems, heck even the “we are all brothers and sisters” christian flag holds more hatred toward others than the confederate flag.I’ve been in court before, myself not being the one on trial, as a witness, when the judge brought the bible out for my swearing in I asked if I could have the A. flag instead to swear on as I am not of any specific religion and such an oath would hold no pressure toward me. the judge declined and told me to leave his courtroom because I wouldn’t swear on a christian bible. that is religious segregation and discrimination. The Confederate flag has always been and will always be a symbol of the people standing up against the government for what they believed was right.

    THAT is why they want it removed. they don’t want a symbol of the people’s power being present before a place to “rule” the people. I’m a true blue american with freedom in my soul, and every inch of my being believes it is just about time to remove the government once again and start fresh. as Thomas Jefferson said, “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” I believe our tree has some dead branches and leaves and it’s time to trim it up.

  • NJK

    I’ll be going there if they do. Nikki Haley should have consulted the legislature and the people of South Carolina, before she spoke out on this. It was disrespectful to handle it the way she did. She is there temporarily, and a decision like this, all of this history, doesn’t belong to her. The flag is not hers to remove.

    I think the country should part ways. I’m tired of the bullying from these radicals communists that seem to occupy the former Democrat Party. I don’t even want to breathe the same air they do. They constantly are causing trouble.

    Let’s part ways, and when they make their choice to live in despotism, they will not be allowed to come back in. If they don’t want to have coal, fine, we’ll take it, they can live in darkness. We will take the electricity. If they don’t want the Bill of Rights, allow them to live in fascism or communism, but we’re not going with them.

    Nikki Haley, shame on you, for the way you handled this. You should have consulted with others. You aren’t a ruler.

  • Jay Arana

    Burn the traitor battle flag as far as I am concerned. If some people associate it with________(fill in the blank), whatever. But IS the flag of the traitors of the USA and everything they stood for. If those view no longer apply then it should be a historical piece not the flag or part of the flag of any memeber of the USA.

    • NJK

      Traitors? Who ever said this country would always be together? If you want to live in hell, with the radical left, live there. Otherwise, mind your own business.

  • thetruth

    Nikki Haley hired Dylann to assassinate the people he did and make it look like the way it does. She is the reason behind removing it. She has made a race war. She is the Spawn of Satan.

  • https:// Shillteam6

    How ever shall the United States survive without…South Carolina!? Haha good bye hillbillies

  • Keith Houston

    “and no linger carries the racist meaning”… WHAT? this flag NEVER had a racial meaning, NEVER!

    All it represented was FREEDOM from OPPRESSION! The South was being oppressed by the North, the war had NO connection to slavery, the North, and especially Lincoln, pushed that agenda.

    When are people going to realize the truth and stop believing lies? Oh silly me…never, cause they’re all bunch of dumbass liberals and conservatives who want to destroy this nation!

  • NorskBamse

    Oh please go ahead and try to leave. The nation now has GPS and bigger flame throwers. I’ll bring the s’mores!

  • John James

    http://www.lasvegascomplaints.com/americans-are-turning-out-to-be-weak-within-our-own-borders/

    AMERICANS ARE TURNING OUT TO BE WEAK WITHIN OUR OWN BORDERS !!!

    What a bunch of weak people Americans are turning out to be …no wonder America is no longer a SuperPower…… we are weak within our own borders and let all these foreigners dictate our laws and policies…. now our forefathers are turning over in their graves ….WoW what a weak ass Governor Alabama & Georgia has and the American citizens that elected these weak ass idiots is just as weak !!!!!

    We are suppose to be A Strong and Powerful Nation yet we (America ) have become Weak and getting Weaker by allowing all these politicians to take our history and throw it away and allow all these big retailers to tell us what we can buy and not buy which is what they are doing by pulling the confederate flag off their shelves….we need to boycott them all !!!!

    I’m embarrassed that we as the people of this great nation have elected all these two face weak ass politicians that want to take down the confederated flag and letting them do it !!!

    This will just allow them to continue to change our laws to suit them and make America even Weaker in the eyes of the world…..wow !!!! Be sure to get these Politicians VOTED out of office soon !!!!

    America and our Citizens Need To Be Strong Again It’s Our Country !!!!!

    By JJ

    6/24/2015

  • Jeff Sorenson

    I, for one, am not so upset about the flag coming down as I am for the reasoning behind it. If we bow down just because a group of people find the flag offensive, what comes next? Will Christmas be banned because it offends another group? Where will it end? Political correctness has ruined this great country.

  • Rebel Kolton

    YEEEEEEE HAWWWWW! Do it boys do it!

  • george

    adoff hitler and his bunch of girly girls murder millions of jews and was so proud of that damn flag it is no difference over hundred of years the good ole boys have dwarf the jews in the murdering of black slaves and they flew that confederate flag with pride now it is time to pull that symbol of hate down you had your run for over four hundred years of free everything now you will have to work for your life style and every one knows that you can’t do it ,i see a lot of blacks with a lot of money living in these three million dollar homes and they are welcome there but this is what this hate is all about ..money the hate toward blacks is superficial because the fear of what they have done in the pass to blacks and really scared of white flight if blacks move in a hundred up to two hundred thousand dollar home ,that’s really the fear that turned into hate..now that’s sad

  • Julie Balthazar

    There are good white folk and bad.There are good black folk and bad.There are good and bad in any race. The flags????? Serious! Don’t they have enough other crap to worry about besides this. Every time I hear it’s June Teenth or it’s Martin Luther Kings Parade.I ask myself why. They are free! If you get rid of the flag because it OFFENDS blacks then I suppose the white man needs to be in a museum??? WTH! They have rights! But it’s not enough.They want the world handed and revolving around them.I do have to say that it isn’t all black folk.Most upstanding black folk just want to live and let live.

  • Faik Fasebuk

    Well done, S. Carolina.
    I’m from PA, but I completely support this.
    Don’t let these SJW cultural Marxists push you around, they’re just a bunch of dupes and Bolshevik throwbacks.

    Need more states to join the secession.

  • terri rowe

    I wish this many people cared about the TPP….. sigh

  • Chris

    The news media made it about the Confederate Flag. ..when they kept saying it wasn’t flying at half staff. … knwing the American flag is the only flag that does..

  • MarkyMark NdaHouse

    Let them secede………….WGAF?

  • James

    I like how the link was not posted. Come on.

  • Wayne Standiford

    The civil war was fought as much for state’s rights as the issue of
    slavery. Slavery should have never come to America, but it did and many
    died on both sides during that horrible war. The rebel flag should be
    left alone as a reminder of the everlasting power struggle we are
    engaged in. Washington is rotten, and has always been in a state of
    corruption and managed by blowhards where but a few really care about
    the folks and the soul of America. My rebel spirit praises those who
    stood up against an overbearing Federal government, but my soul mourns
    for those who suffered in chains. The rebel flag has not caused this
    current state of affairs but rather this nation is no longer under God,
    and daily we see the hand of the evil one at work. Removing a flag and
    historical placements will not heal what we have allowed to become
    broken.

  • Brandon dwinnell

    So this is my understanding. As a southern white 15 year old male I am I am to believe the north and the media. If SC leaves other states may leave with them as well. And if that happens God forbid a bother civil war breaks out ( which I don’t think will happen but it may never know ). Also as a military kid and a kid wanting to join if a civil war breaks out ( again it may or may not ) but as a young man what am I going to do.do I stay and protect my family or do I go and fight, and if the presdent calls in the army to fight for the north ( always wanted to join the army) what the am I going to do. I care about this flag but if it starts a war why have people die. We know the numbers behind the first civil war, and this time it will be much worse. Again I don’t know if a war whould break out but based on the path of our forefathers this is how it started.

    • David Ward

      Don’t worry. The will not be a rehashing of 1861. Today’s transient society has already seen to that. It’s just that the minority in this case is extremely vocal, but their tantrums are largely ignored by the actual adults.

  • Politits

    Wow, that is pretty stupid. The federal government has no hand or responsibility for the removal of the flag from state grounds. It was an act by the state’s own Republican Governor. Do these “legislators” have the foggiest idea how the government actually works? That is the political equivalent of cutting off your head to cure a hangnail.

    Heck do these “legislators” even know their own history? Because the last time they tried to secede, it didn’t turn out very well for them.

  • sickofgubmentdeath

    MYTH – The War of 1861 – 1865 was fought over slavery.

    FACT – Terribly untrue. The North fought the war over money. Plain and simple. When the South started Secession, Lincoln was asked, “Why not let the South go in peace?” To which he replied, “I can’t let them go. Who would pay for the government?” Sensing total financial ruin for the North, Lincoln waged war on the South. The South fought the War to repel Northern aggression and invasion.

    MYTH – Only Southerners owned slaves.

    FACT – Entirely untrue. Many Northern civilians owned slaves. Prior to, during and even after the War Of Northern Aggression.

    Surprisingly, to many history impaired individuals, most Union Generals and staff had slaves to serve them! William T. Sherman had many slaves that served him until well after the war was over and did not free them until late in 1865.

    U.S. Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn’t free his slaves earlier, Grant stated “Good help is so hard to come by these days.”

    Contrarily, Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased – they were inherited) in 1862!!! Lee freed his slaves several years before the war was over, and considerably earlier than his Northern counterparts. And during the fierce early days of the war when the South was obliterating the Yankee armies!

    MYTH – The Confederate Battle Flag was flown on slave ships.

    FACT – NONE of the flags of the Confederacy or Southern Nation ever flew over a slave ship. Nor did the South own or operate any slaves ships. The English, the Dutch and the Portuguese brought slaves to this country, not the Southern Nation.

    BUT, even more monumental, it is also very important to know and understand that Federal, Yankee, Union ships brought slaves to America! These ships were from the New England states, and their hypocrisy is atrocious.

    These Federals were ones that ended up crying the loudest about slavery. But without their ships, many of the slaves would have never arrived here. They made countless fortunes on the delivery of slaves as well as the products made from raw materials such as cotton and tobacco in the South.

    This is the problem with Yankee history History is overwhelmingly portrayed incorrectly by most of the Federal & Yankee books and media.

    MYTH – The Confederate Battle Flag represented the Southern Nation.

    FACT – Not true. While the Southern Battle flag was carried into battle, the Southern Nation had 3 different National flags during the course of the war.

    The First National flag was changed due to a resemblance of the US flag.

    The Second National flag was subsequently modified due to the similarity to a flag of truce.

    The Third National flag was the adopted flag of the Confederacy.

    The Confederate Battle Flag was never a National Flag of the Confederacy. It was carried into battle by several armies such as the Army Of Northen Virginia and the Army of Tennessee. Was also used as a Naval Jack by the Confederate Navy.

    MYTH – The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the “Stars & Bars”.

    FACT – A common misconception. The First National Confederate Flag is correctly known as the “Stars & Bars”. The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the “Southern Cross”.

    MYTH – The Confederate Battle Flag represents racism today.

    FACT – The Confederate Battle Flag today finds itself in the center of much controversy and hoopla going on in several states. The cry to take this flag down is unjustified. It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that vilify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels.

    MYTH – The United States Flag represented freedom.

    FACT – No chance. The US flag flew over a slave nation for over 85 years! The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and it’s commodities. It wasn’t until the South decided to leave the Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive without the Southern money. That is the true definition of hypocrisy.

    MYTH – Abraham Lincoln was the Great Emancipator.

    FACT – While Lincoln has went down in history as the Great Emancipator, many would not care to hear his real thoughts on people of color. Martyred President Abraham Lincoln was fervently making plans to send all freed slaves to the jungles of Central America once the war was over. Knowing that African society would never allow the slaves to return back to Africa, Lincoln also did not want the slaves in the US. He thought the jungles of Central America would be the best solution and conducive to the freed slaves best interest. The only thing that kept this from happening, was his assassination.

    MYTH – The South revered slavery.

    FACT – A very interesting fact on slavery is that at the time the War of 1861 -1865 officially commenced, the Southern States were actually in the process of freeing all slaves in the South. Russia had freed it’s servants in 1859, and the South took great note of this. Had military intervention not been forced upon the South, a very different America would have been realized then as well as now.

    MYTH – The Confederate Army was comprised of rich slave owners.

    FACT – Very far from true. The vast majority of soldiers in the Confederate Army were simple men of meager income. Most of which were hard working farmers and common men. Then, as now, very few rich men ever fight a war.

    MYTH – Only the North had men of color in their ranks.

    FACT – Quite simply a major falsehood of history. Many blacks, both free and of their own will, joined the Confederate Army to fight for their beloved Southern home. Additionally, men of other ethnic extraction fought as well. Oriental, Mexican & Spanish men as well as Native American Indians fought with pride for the South.

    Today, many men of color are members in the heritage group SCV – Sons Of Confederate Veterans. These men of color and pride rejoice in their heritage. The continued attacks on the Southern Nation, The Confederacy, and her symbols are a terrible outrage to these fine people. These attacks should be denounced with as much fervor as those who denounce the South.

    MYTH – The Confederate Flags are an authorized symbol of Aryan, KKK and hate groups.

    FACT – Quite the contrary. These despicable organizations such as the KKK and Aryans have taken a hallowed piece of history, and have plagued good Southern folks and the memories of fine Confederate Soldiers that fought under the flag with their perverse agenda. IN NO WAY does the Confederate Flag represent hate or violence. Heritage groups such as the SCV battle daily the damage done to a proud nation by these hate groups. The SCV denounces all hate groups, and pridefully boast HERITAGE – NOT HATE.

    MYTH – The SCV – Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a racist, hate group.

    FACT – This is a blatant attack on one of the finest heritage groups ever. The SCV – Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a historical, patriotic and non-political organization comprised of descendants of Confederate Soldiers and sailors dedicated to insuring that a true history of the 1861 -1865 period is preserved and presented to the public. The SCV continues to educate the public of the memory and reputation of the Confederate soldier as well as the motives for his suffering and sacrifice.

    The SCV – Sons Of Confederate Veterans are in NO WAY affiliated with, nor does it recognize or condone the terrible legacy of hate groups such as the KKK.

  • MattTheKingg

    Why is this such a large issue?
    It’s a symbol, not anything that affects anyone. The threat of making such a drastic threat over something so trivial is absurd!

    These people seem to treat this country as though it’s an extreme religion

    • David Ward

      In case you’ve missed the news over the last several decades, it is effecting someone. So if it’s not effecting the others, then why keep it on the pole?

      • MattTheKingg

        I really don’t care what’s done to the flag. Whether or not the flag stays shouldn’t be such a large issue that a state is willing to secede from the US because of it. Imagine the effect a secede would have on the people that live there! Why would they be willing to take that action over a symbol? It’s illogical

  • Sunshine1011

    What a fucking joke. Any person in the SC congress that wants this should be tried for treason.

  • Rob Sayles

    So I’m sitting here reading all of these heart-felt comments and responses wondering to myself… “Do any of these dim-wits realize this website is satire?” I’m curious to know what you all think of the article about earth running out of oxygen next year? How about the 150 degree heatwave killing thousands? Marlboro’s pot cigarettes? What about Playstation and Xbox merging?

    The sad truth is that people, such as yourselves, are so ready to fight about anything and everything, it doesn’t even have to be true.

  • LAVA MAN

    you know what prompted her to change her mind? VOTES.

    WE ALL NEED TO WAKE UP!!! POLITICIANS ARE SCUM OF THE EARTH

  • Sally Crowner

    Can someone answer a simple question for me please; Why is it since the Obama regime is all our history being changed or simply erased? The flags are a part of our history and it nobody has noticed the south preserves it’s history, and is a symbol of our loyalty to our country. We cannot let the moron is office win this battle or any others, he has staged so many false flags, and told so many lies how can anyone even still support him is beyond me. Now put your patriot panties or briefs on and stand against Obama’s regime, support the country you live in or get the hell out!

  • Michael Prechtel

    First of all, this flag is NOT the “Confederate Flag.” It is the “Battle Flag of Northern Virginia.” This design, however, is the one most synonymous with the term, and the one used in various forms on many of the other flags that were flown by the Confederate States. It is also the one most hated by those who are completely and totally ignorant of what it stands for.

    So take another look at the flag and answer this very simple question : Do you see a big letter “X” anywhere on the flag? What if I were to lay that X down on its side like this? : Do you see it now? The X is formed by the big, blue bands which are outlined with white trim.

    Now take another look at the flag. On this big “X” there are thirteen white stars. Do you know what these thirteen stars represent? They represent the thirteen original, united colonies from which the United States began. Each one of these colonies had its own system of self government… until the start of ‘northern aggression’ when the northern states began trying to usurp authority over the southern states. This was the main cause of the Civil War.

    Point of note : The thirteen stars on this flag appear to lie on the blue X… but in reality, the X lies on the stars, allowing them to shine through.

    Now, I’d like to ask you a simple question : Do you remember from your grade-school years how the teachers would sometimes ask you to circle the right answers or picture on a work page, or to put an X on a picture or word or other item that didn’t belong in a group? That is the same concept this flag is designed around; the stars are laid out in the pattern of an X, and the blue bands are put on the thirteen stars to show that the southern states no longer wanted to be a part of the union with the northern states. In simpler terms, the message of flag’s design is simply this… CROSS US OUT of your Union! The southern states withdrew from the union in a movement called “secession,” which led to the Civil War.

    That is the only message this flag is sending!

  • Amanda Trivett

    History is history you can not erase it !!!!!!! NO ONE WANTS ANY SLAVES THESE DAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They will be tearing down a monument at Portsmouth VA its there representing the dead and they are going to tear it down. Oh man this is just going to start up another war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That 18 year old that killed those innocent people was screwed up in the head he was mentally ill not Confederate Flag Ill the that Flag did not make him kill! Come on his own father said that if he gets the death penalty he would press the button if that guys dad is that quick to murder his own son no wondering his son turned into a murderer!

  • 220VOLTS

    Fred Potter is correct. The Civil War was all about economics – but then, are not all wars about control, land, resources, and, as always, the death of the innocents?
    Many Americans say discarding this flag (a historical banner) is akin to throwing the baby out with the bathwater. It’s a knee-jerk reaction.

    • David Ward

      Sometimes the baby has gotta go to.

  • B E

    secede! yay ! do it! other states will follow

  • Jonathon Taylor

    Federal government removing confederation flag because of racist and hate? What about America flag too? Because both flags are no different I’d saying the same thing. They’re both north and south civil war history values NOT racist or whatever. I thinking federal government shouldn’t removing confederation flag without people vote for 2016 keeping the flag or removing it isn’t that hard? All flags aren’t that big deal to me though obviously I thinking federal government is wrong without asking for vote first because of ain’t fair to people.

    • David Ward

      Yeah, but the federal flag is a real one. The other is a symbol of a failed secession attempt and because an independent southern statehood failed to materialize, that banner really doesn’t symbolize anything official. So flying it on taxpayer property simply says, “hey we just want to remind everyone that we failed to achieve our goals. As a S. Carolinian, that’s pretty embarrassing to me. It should be to you as well.

  • Stephen Wynn Lonewolf VanNortw

    I do think they need a vote because no e will ever stop flying the confederate flag or even stop wearing it

  • Dawn Renee Radford

    Don’t let the door hit ya — and pay up your share of the national debt on the way out…

  • El

    The Confederates have been fighting terrorist since 1861

    • David Ward

      I’m sorry…what?

  • LadyDrifter

    My question is this…..before this mentally ill shooter did his nasty act, there was not a concern about this flag flying anywhere. So why now? Now they are trying to attack the US Flag. What is next? Come on folks, start seeing the whole picture and stop bickering over what didn’t seem to be an issue two weeks ago.

  • tracer lane

    I believe the flag should not be removed. Its a fact and well knows the flag was indeed used by the confederates in the civil war it did not represent slavery it never did the reason the war was started was because the north raised taxes on the south when we tried to pay then apparently our money was no good the war was not over slavery. Plus if the flag offends u it offends me that u want to take it down people need to get over this slaver happened long time ago its no longer apart of thus culture let it go no since in arguing and fighting over this stupid nonsense anymore

  • garry

    Everyone wants to cry and say the confederate flag is racial discrimination lets put that aside and talk about something else try calling the ucla and ask them why the naacp only give out scholarship to coloreds….now thats RACIAL DISCRIMINATION.or why the american flag isnt bein takein down and banned look at what the americans did to the indians mexicans ohh wait and not to mention the spanish american war yeah if thats not racial discrimination u tell me what the hell is ?????

  • Szandor Diabolica

    No one in SC metropolitan areas would even think like that. No one who wants to make money, anyway. These people need to get out of office. I am sure I do not live in their county. No one in Greenville, Charleston, or Columbia would even imagine that to be realistic in the least.

  • Pam Parizo

    Fred, have you read the Declaration of the Immediate Causes for secession that was put out by your state government 154 years ago? It said it was slavery. The declarations for other states also emphasize slavery, and they also emphasize the election of Lincoln. The South was not removing slavery; they wanted to expand it to other states. In 1790, 90% of the slaves were in the South and that did not decrease (Federal census data). Maryland was forcibly kept in the Union or it would’ve also seceded. Delaware’s slavery ended with the 13th amendment in 1865 (not sure where you got 1872). Delaware had 2000 slaves in 1860. Missouri and Kentucky both were border states with strong Southern sentiment and they suffered for that. The true Northern states of New England and the Upper Midwest had no slaves in 1860. Also, I would like to comment that the Annual Report by the Secretary of State in 1859 (A Southern Democrat, btw) showed that 64.5% of all imports flowed through NYC (thus, 64,5% of tariff payments). All other ports, which would’ve included some Northern ports made up the remainder. So, NYC bore the brunt of supplying tax revenue to the government. Southerners read a lot of things, but evidently not primary documentation.

  • Cody Notgetinit

    So leaving the union is the best way of handling this matter?

    • frito61

      Yes. Its over.

  • Aundria

    This is stupid.

  • Ariyen

    History books, the media, the school systems, etc abound in falsehoods and inaccuracies of Confederate and Southern history. This fact sheet will help to clarify and dispell some of these rampant inaccuracies.

    MYTH – The War of 1861 – 1865 was fought over slavery.

    FACT – Terribly untrue. The North fought the war over money. Plain and simple. When the South started Secession, Lincoln was asked, “Why not let the South go in peace?” To which he replied, “I can’t let them go. Who would pay for the government?” Sensing total financial ruin for the North, Lincoln waged war on the South. The South fought the War to repel Northern aggression and invasion.

    MYTH – Only Southerners owned slaves.

    FACT – Entirely untrue. Many Northern civilians owned slaves. Prior to, during and even after the War Of Northern Aggression.

    Surprisingly, to many history impaired individuals, most Union Generals and staff had slaves to serve them! William T. Sherman had many slaves that served him until well after the war was over and did not free them until late in 1865.

    U.S. Grant also had several slaves, who were only freed after the 13th amendment in December of 1865. When asked why he didn’t free his slaves earlier, Grant stated “Good help is so hard to come by these days.”

    Contrarily, Confederate General Robert E. Lee freed his slaves (which he never purchased – they were inherited) in 1862!!! Lee freed his slaves several years before the war was over, and considerably earlier than his Northern counterparts. And during the fierce early days of the war when the South was obliterating the Yankee armies!

    Lastly, and most importantly, why did NORTHERN States outlaw slavery only AFTER the war was over? The so-called “Emancipation Proclamation” of Lincoln only gave freedom to slaves in the SOUTH! NOT in the North! This pecksniffery even went so far as to find the state of Delaware rejecting the 13th Amendment in December of 1865 and did not ratify it (13th Amendment / free the slaves) until 1901!

    MYTH – The Confederate Battle Flag was flown on slave ships.

    FACT – NONE of the flags of the Confederacy or Southern Nation ever flew over a slave ship. Nor did the South own or operate any slaves ships. The English, the Dutch and the Portugese brought slaves to this country, not the Southern Nation.

    BUT, even more monumental, it is also very important to know and understand that Federal, Yankee, Union ships brought slaves to America! These ships were from the New England states, and their hypocrisy is atrocious.

    These Federals were ones that ended up crying the loudest about slavery. But without their ships, many of the slaves would have never arrived here. They made countless fortunes on the delivery of slaves as well as the products madefrom raw materials such as cotton and tobacco in the South.

    This is the problem with Yankee history History is overwhelmingly portrayed incorrectly by most of the Federal & Yankee books and media.

    MYTH – The Confederate Battle Flag represented the Southern Nation.

    FACT – Not true. While the Southern Battle flag was carried into battle, the Southern Nation had 3 different National flags during the course of the war.

    The First National flag was changed due to a resemblance of the US flag.

    The Second National flag was subsequently modified due to the similarity to a flag of truce.

    The Third National flag was the adopted flag of the Confederacy.

    The Confederate Battle Flag was never a National Flag of the Confederacy. It was carried into battle by several armies such as the Army Of Northen Virginia and the Army of Tennessee. Was also used as a Naval Jack by the Confederate Navy.

    MYTH – The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the “Stars & Bars”.

    FACT – A common misconception. The First National Confederate Flag is correctly known as the “Stars & Bars”. The Confederate Battle Flag is known as the “Southern Cross”.

    MYTH – The Confederate Battle Flag represents racism today.

    FACT – The Confederate Battle Flag today finds itself in the center of much controversy and hoopla going on in several states. The cry to take this flag down is unjustified. It is very important to keep in mind that the Confederate Battle Flag was simply just that. A battle flag. It was never even a National flag, so how could it have flown over a slave nation or represented slavery or racism? This myth is continued by lack of education and ignorance. Those that villify the Confederate Battle Flag are very confused about history and have jumped upon a bandwagon with loose wheels.

    MYTH – The United States Flag represented freedom.

    FACT – No chance. The US flag flew over a slave nation for over 85 years! The North tolerated slavery and acknowledged it as a Division Of Labor. The North made a vast fortune on slavery and it’s commodities. It wasn’t until the South decided to leave the Union that the North objected. The North knew it could not survive without the Southern money. That is the true definition of hypocrisy.

    MYTH – Abraham Lincoln was the Great Emancipator.

    FACT – While Lincoln has went down in history as the Great Emancipator, many would not care to hear his real thoughts on people of color. Martyred President Abraham Lincoln was fervently making plans to send all freed slaves to the jungles of Central America once the war was over. Knowing that African society would never allow the slaves to return back to Africa, Lincoln also did not want the slaves in the US. He thought the jungles of Central America would be the best solution and conducive to the freed slaves best interest. The only thing that kept this from happening, was his assassination.

    MYTH – The South revered slavery.

    FACT – A very interesting fact on slavery is that at the time the War of 1861 -1865 officially commenced, the Southern States were actually in the process of freeing all slaves in the South. Russia had freed it’s servants in 1859, and the South took great note of this. Had military intervention not been forced upon the South, a very different America would have been realized then as well as now.

    MYTH – The Confederate Army was comprised of rich slave owners.

    FACT – Very far from true. The vast majority of soldiers in the Confederate Army were simple men of meager income. Most of which were hard working farmers and common men. Then, as now, very few rich men ever fight a war.

    MYTH – Only the North had men of color in their ranks.

    FACT – Quite simply a major falsehood of history. Many blacks, both free and of their own will, joined the Confederate Army to fight for their beloved Southern home. Additionally, men of other ethnic extraction fought as well. Oriental, Mexican & Spanish men as well as Native American Indians fought with pride for the South.

    Today, many men of color are members in the heritage group SCV – Sons Of Confederate Veterans. These men of color and pride rejoice in their heritage. The continued attacks on the Southern Nation, The Confederacy, and her symbols are a terrible outrage to these fine people. These attacks should be denounced with as much fervor as those who denounce the South.

    MYTH – The Confederate Flags are an authorized symbol of Aryan, KKK and hate groups.

    FACT – Quite the contrary. These dispicable organizations such as the KKK and Aryans have taken a hallowed piece of history, and have plagued good Southern folks and the memories of fine Confederate Soldiers that fought under the flag with their perverse agenda. IN NO WAY does the Confederate Flag represent hate or violence. Heritage groups such as the SCV battle daily the damage done to a proud nation by these hate groups. The SCV denounces all hate groups, and pridefully boast HERITAGE – NOT HATE.

    MYTH – The SCV – Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a racist, hate group.

    FACT – This is a blatant attack on one of the finest heritage groups ever. The SCV – Sons Of Confederate Veterans are a historical, patriotic and non-political organization comprised of descendents of Confederate Soldiers and sailors dedicated to insuring that a true history of the 1861 -1865 period is preserved and presented to the public. The SCV continues to educate the public of the memory and reputation of the Confederate soldier as well as the motives for his suffering and sacrifice.

    The SCV – Sons Of Confederate Veterans are in NO WAY affiliated with, nor does it recognize or condone the terrible legacy of hate groups such as the KKK.

  • SuperDelicate

    Two birds…one stone. Cool. Secede.

  • Wayne

    Its a memorial for those who dies for the Confederacy for crying out loud id like to know would anyone who supports the flag being removed if i come over and piss on your deceased loved ones headstone

  • Bradley Jackson

    Civil War fought over rights of Wealthy to keep slave economy……..

    The value of the slaves in the south was worth more than anything, except the land itself.

    There were millions of slaves in the south. When Lincoln threatened to abolish slavery, the TPTB knew that would be a punishing blow to the southern economy and to the pockets of the wealthy land owners.

    Millions of dollars of slave/property value would disappear overnight. Rich folks don’t want to become poor. They would rather fight. Hence the reason for the Civil War.

    It’s really all about economics. Sure the poor dirt farmers did not own slaves, and the large majority of whites did not own slaves either. They really did not care much about the slave issue.

    But those poor white farmers and their families were needed on the front lines to fight for the wealthy land owners. So they created the States Rights issue that most poor whites could identify with.

    Now they were ready to fight. Economics is the motor of history. Follow the money………

  • Kryštof Klímek

    John Brown was captured by Robert Lee and him and his abolitionist army of terrorists were executed by the South, the commies in the north made them into Trayvon martyrs and this is what caused the civil war.

    John Brown was in Europe during 1848 communist revolutions, known as
    European Spring. This is where the name “Arab Spring” comes from.

    He was negotiating prices for Europe’s Wool merchants. These were
    wealthiest people in the world at one time, clothing industry was most
    lucrative business in the world, it is what drove entire cotton
    plantations and slavery itself. So these were most powerful people on
    earth, richest men.

    Cotton was superior to wool, Wool merchants went broke because of Cotton, they wanted southern Cotton states destroyed.

    Also one reason India was subjugated by Britain was to grow cotton for
    jewish Sassoon family, wealthiest people in the world at the time.

    [link to http://www.rense.com

    General Ulysses Grant expelled jew carpetbaggers from reconstructionist South because they were exploiting southerners, Lincoln revoked his order.

  • HarpDiem

    Where is link to the Petition?

  • Tripp Polk

    Secede from the union.

  • http://www.BenjaminHowling.com/ Benjamin Howling
  • http://www.BenjaminHowling.com/ Benjamin Howling
  • http://www.BenjaminHowling.com/ Benjamin Howling
  • http://www.BenjaminHowling.com/ Benjamin Howling
  • shatto

    ….
    Loony-Tune Murders Churchgoers….
    The South must fall again!
    I reckon there is an agenda somewhere.
    – Michael Shatto. 6/26/15.

  • Randal Phillips

    I fully support secession. As with other states, it should have been done when the Feds breached the contract of the Constitution, thereby nullifying it. SC lead in a just secession before. They should do so again.

  • frito61

    Well. Now that we’ve turned into the Gay / Nggr Union over that last few days ( and Obama and his minions have shown their true faces ), are you ready to leave yet?

  • Terry Hall

    I think it is a good idea. I wish Tennessee and Texas would do the same. These states can support themselves. Without federal government support and control. It works like blackmail in order to receive government funds you must do this or that. The funds that were paid by the citizens of that state. No more welfare control, no more forced school lunches or programs, no forced insurance. If enough state do it the idiots in Washington will start tap dancing. They keep taking the states rights to control themselves. It needs to stop.

  • James Hepler

    I would bet that lots of the names on that petition are people who would just love to be rid of SC altogether. I know I would sign it. Move all the bigots to SC and build a wall around it so the rest of the US can have some progress.

  • BFOJ

    States need not seek to secede, but to succeed. We can do this by getting off our dead arse and stop complaining about the Federal Government overstepping its Constitutional authority and returning States rights by taking action to accomplish this. What those actions are do seem to be limited since our Representatives are representing the Federal Government and not the people that elected them. Then again Americans are so divided thanks to the last 6+ years of a President that cannot relate to we Americans or our history I don’t foresee even a major catastrophe occurring in the USA as bringing us together again as did 9/11. Troubled times we live in, no simple answer, some new creative suggestions need to be offered and tried. Anyone have a reasonable, positive suggestion or two?

  • http://www.obamasucks.tv/ John – Atlanta

    It does not matter what SC does and if they do secede from the so called Union because God is not going to show grace, that was what the shooting in the SC church was about. When God wipes SC off the face of the earth because of the homosexual marriage the state supports, along with abortion, the flag will mean little.

    It is called “► Curse of the Zeroes – Part 4 – Zechariah 13 – what kills the”

  • ROBERT

    GOOD, GOOD RIDENCE

  • James C. Gammage

    Link to outside source confirming this?

  • Ann Marie

    Okay, just keep up the stupid bickering …. between the race riots, rogue cops, murders, whining about ACA, whining about gay rights, whining about infringement on your religious rights, lack of decent paying jobs, bigots, racists etc… etc…. Just wonder how you would all feel if Obama declared martial law to just shut you all up.
    I sit here in amazing wonder at the stupidity of people who don’t get their way and throw a tantrum. .IE.. we will secede from the US… yeah right, like that will happen. .BIG TALKERS …. LIKE THE PASTOR WHO SAID HE WOULD SET HIMSELF ON FIRE IF THE GAYS could get married. Well it passed and I didn’t see the BIG MOUTH pastor set himself on fire!!
    Go back to bed people, get up on the right side this time and say out loud…. I am positively going to have a wonderful day filled with love and caring and try to do MY bit towards having a more cohesive society. It all starts with one person!

  • Alice Syverson

    If SC wants to succession from the USA let them go. When and if a large number of their citizens, businesses move to other friendlier
    states and or a disaster occurs; SC does not need to come running to the USA Federal Government for Federal funding. They should be required to set up and fund their own postal system, health care systems, Social Security, Medicare, infrastructure such as roads and bridges. They can also get their own military to protect them selves from terrorists or what or who ever else comes along in the next years or century. They can fund their own state.

  • Michael S

    c ya sc, been a slice

  • John Cole

    The Battle Flag of Va. went up in SC, I believe in 1965

  • Alice Severson

    Wish I could sign it.

  • Larry Cochrane

    Remove the current Governor. Not the flag…..

  • batman

    Nikki Haley.You are a TRAITOR to your state.If you were born in the South,a TRAITOR to your heritage.I pity you.Your political career in South Carolina is over

  • Kasey

    Oh no, don’t threaten me with a good thing.

  • USAnowMSAsadly

    Of course Marxist punk Obuttsh*t smiles as does the ghost of Hugo Chavez.

  • Josh Weinstein

    Sorry, but SLAVERY and RACISM is EXACTLY what that flag stands for. It is used by the KKK and just about every other white supremacist organization. It was never even the REAL confederate flag. It was the battle flag of Northern Virginia that became popularized by the KKK. Not to mention just about all of the secession declarations mentioned slavery, not as a footnote, but as their primary reason for secession. You cannot re-write history.

    • SandyT

      Are you a little “rainbow” today to match the White House?

      • Josh Weinstein

        Lots of people are. Check out Facebook, rainbows are EVERYWHERE!

        • SandyT

          Not I!

          • Josh Weinstein

            And certainly that is your right. I don’t understand what has changed for people against gay marriage? Nobody is going to force you to marry a member of the same sex. Nobody is going to try to silence you. You can still say all of the anti-gay things you want to WITHOUT the fear of being arrested for it – the First Amendment did not go anywhere. Your churches do not have to perform any marriage ceremonies they do not want to perform. All this means is that gay couples can now access the same benefits and have the same responsibilities as straight people.

          • SandyT

            Personally, I couldn’t care less what anyone does in the privacy of their homes, etc. but neither should the gay community be able to deliberately target a business owner who happens to believe differently, that gay marriage isn’t right, just so the gay community can put them out of business with protests, law suits, etc. Why not just go down the street to another business that is more than happy to have your business. The backlash against the LGBTXXX, whatever, community, is well deserved. Whatever happened to live and let live? If gays don’t want to be discriminated against for their lifestyle, then Christians shouldn’t be discriminated against for their religious beliefs. It works both ways.

  • Mae Angela Craft

    Bye, nothing but swamp and mosquitoes!!!

    • jennaz

      And the beautiful Blue Ridge Mountains!

  • Charles_Miller

    The North definitely DID NOT hold the moral high ground when it came to any debate of Man’s inhumanity to Man. Slavery, then as now, was used as a political tool to justify the Federal government usurping Southern States’ rights. It was well known that the South was fully capable of surviving and prospering as an independent nation, while the industrialized North was almost wholly dependent on Southern agriculture and economy. The impetus for the Civil War (aka The War of Northern Aggression) was the subjugation of Southern States’ rights and a complete Federal takeover of Southern resources and economy. Even Lincoln acknowledged that abolishing slavery was NOT the objective of the war.

  • Robert Brownlee

    Exactly what Obozo wants this is how he will claim a state of emergency. Then declare martial law and shut down all forthcoming elections. Then become the United States first dictator. This is what he has been after since he first took office. The USSI (the United Socialist States of Islam) as Obozo stated to the King of Saudi Arabia ” the US will become the world’s largest muslim country”.

  • AfterMe_TheDeluge

    They don’t really want to secede. They’re just behaving like a bunch of angry toddlers. South Carolina wouldn’t last a day as an independent state. They have NO money, NO jobs, and NO sense.

  • That Dude

    I don’t blame them! Secede. I am not from your State, but from a neighboring State. I will give more support to this effort and hopefully become a citizen when successful . As I will with any other Southern State that willfully seeks secession .

  • Sack1

    The modern world is laughing at you ignorant rednecks and that hateful flag. Go ahead and keep it flying, it helps us civilized people identify the trash.

  • MouseTalk

    Just more friggin lies by lame stream media JV reporters!!! THERE IS NO PLANS TO SECEDE FROM THE NATION. You pot stirring little bastards with microphones and cameras need to go home—-THERE IS NOTHING MORE TO SEE FOLKS so lets move along.

  • lorakling1

    “…a social and political group in the South…” Hahahaha! Well, that’s ONE way of putting it. The other way is “….the present-day KKK…”

  • Tom Sander

    Do not rescind the Heritage Act nor remove the Confederate flag from the State Capital
    grounds. This Political Correctness crap has to stop. What’s next, demolishing the Washington and Jefferson Monuments in DC and taking their images off of US
    coin and currency because they owned slaves? In America we have the right to offend
    others, like displaying rainbow colors on the White House in support of gay marriage (I was very offended at Obama doing that to the people’s house). Stand your ground and don’t bow to the pressures of the blacks and liberals–they’re ruining this country as we stand around doing nothing to stop them, e.g., among non-Hispanic blacks, the out-of-wedlock/bastard birth rate figure is highest, at 72.2 percent; for American Indians/Alaska Natives, it’s 66.9 percent; 53.5 percent for Hispanics; 29.4 percent for non-Hispanic whites; and a mere 17.1 percent for Asians/Pacific Islanders.

  • Lisa Miller

    You have some citations on this story? I can’t find it ANYWHERE else.

  • Roger Christopher Thornton

    Leaders of the Confederacy: Alexander Hamilton Stephens of Georgia (1812-1883). As a congressman, he led the fight to preserve slavery in new American territories. As vice president of the Confederacy, he infamously declared, “Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.”

    • John C. Calhoun of South Carolina (1782-1850). Along with Daniel Webster and Henry Clay, he was one of the “Great Triumvirate” of congressional leaders in the early 19th century. But he famously defended slavery on the Senate floor as a “positive good,” arguing that American slaves had benefited from slavery: “Never before has the black race of Central Africa, from the dawn of history to the present day, attained a condition so civilized and so improved, not only physically, but morally and intellectually.”

    • Wade Hampton of South Carolina (1818-1902). Scion of a wealthy slaveholding family, he became a Confederate calvary general. Then, after the war, he promoted the “Lost Cause” mythology alongside fellow former general Jubal Early and fiercely resisted federal Reconstruction. As a politician, he was allied with the “Red Shirts,” a violent, white-supremacist cabal. ijs

  • Senor boogie woogie

    I am from Mississippi and support changing the flag of the state, and removing the Stars and Bars. It’s redneck, and a throwback from a bygone era. Not to mention that the state is 40 percent black.

    If rednecks want to fly it, head on brother. I love the Stars and Bars. But it does not promote a forwarding image and never will.

  • MAY BRITTON

    wanting the American flag removal is coming before long just wait and see then the U S Government will remove it to if its left up to BOZO he wants this to be a muslim country along with ISIS and the terriost and Sharia Law

  • Nena

    I’m sorry, but “South Carolina” is not threatening to secede from anything. A few whackerdoodles in our legislature and around the state would love to see that happen, but it won’t. That flag is coming down, SC will be just fine, and life as we know it in this lovely state will go on. The racist element here is FAR smaller than the national media would have you believe, in actuality the vast majority of us get along fabulously. The biggest problems here post the massacre in Charleston has been racist people (both white and black) who have been bussed into SC from other states. They’ve all been drown out by the sound of the gospel…we’ve turned the other cheek and told them to leave before we turn it back. If you think you can come to try and divide us, you’ve got another think coming as my nanny used to say.

  • Jurisrachel

    Here’s a thought: these folks can find an island somewhere (or, we can push ’em out, on a big raft). I’m more than happy to be shun of them, if thinking and evolving is such a task for them. But no, you don’t get to take part of the _United_ States with you.

    And, while random internet-ers may sign this petition, that by no stretch means sufficient votes of South Carolinians exist to support such idiocy, in real life. (But it’s still nice that these folks were so overt with it. No sense being in the closet, with the foolishness.)

  • Gina

    Bye, then! Secede away!

  • disqus_6ifxqvwzzY

    Short memories, I guess. They tried secession once, and it did not work. Should it be tried again, I would think it incumbent to hang the traitors who sponsored it.

    • sidpits

      Secession is not treason,and was considered by several Northern states for various reasons.Now Yankee,your sick Empire is not the country we fought in 1865.Your military hasn’t won any struggle since 1945.They can’t beat a crew of goat rapists because your military is full of sodomites and minorities.We don’t have to beat you,if we’re just persistent,and keep sending body bags home full of dead Yankees while costing you money,you’ll quit.Reference Korea,Vietnam,Iraq,Afghanistan…
      Now if your President will just continue with his brilliant foreign policy and start a war with Russia the perfect storm for secession is created.
      ##FedsOutofFlorida. Secession Now! Free Dixie!

  • Louis Guertin

    Suprising how you folks need a Canadian to ask this question: Emancipation? What about the Five Border States?

  • haroldcrews

    The SCV as a 501(c)3 organization has very little political involvement. It cannot support candidates or political parties whether through endorsements, campaign contributions or organizing partisan political events.

  • prt1231

    They tried that once and it went badly. You can’t fix stupid.

  • Kathy Armstrong

    Texas tried that. It won’t happen. I wish it could but they won’t let it happen.

  • Daniel C. Morrison

    perhaps this will be sufficient to enlighten you of institutionalized racism. Now, consider why it is ignorant, and counter-productive for anyone truly having allegiance to America to support this hate-rag which has ALWAYS been a flag of enemy insurgents, and a banner for white supremacy…many think America not capable of progress, Bree Newsome shows us that we do have the potential, if we only have the courage, and will to do so.

    http://reverbpress.com/news/us/confederate-flag-placed-black-civil-war-monument-bigots-dont-mess-boston/

  • Nameless App 1989

    So, will this be it? Will this be the awakening of the sleeping giant?

  • Ann Inquirer

    The rest of America doesn’t like Southerners mainly because they are Christian so why not let them go? Except then those ingrates (of all that has been sacrificed for them over the centuries) will not have the South as its whipping boy any more. La Raza wants the West back for Atzlan. Texas has threatened “independence” so balkanization is closer than ever.
    Word of advice, don’t use the word Secession it doesn’t have a good success rate; use the word Independence, which does.

  • Ann Inquirer

    Get your flags now before Obama and his fascists stop it.
    https:///a.356581841110207.1073741830.355910681177323/681753828593005/

    • Ann Inquirer

      link to photo description here: https://www.facebook.
      com/AnnInquirer/photos/a.356581841110207.1073741830.355910681177323/681753828593005/

  • Pudge N Sissy Blackmon

    I dont think the flag should b took down. I dont want it down. Everyone has opinions. My opinion is that the flag has nothing to do with the shooting. The guy that done the shooting may have been racist but im not racist and I dont look at the flag for a symbol of racism. I look at it like a southern pride. I also think that it will cause more problems taking the flag down. Slavery is in the past we r in the present. Everyone views the flag in a different way but most people I know around where I live dont think of it as rasism. Ive got blacks in my family and im not racist.taking the flag down may cause a war or other actions. They always told me the south will rise again and I believe that. The flag has been up there for years and aint had no problem with it til this dang shooting. Yes I feel sorry for what has happened and im praying for the families that lost a loved one but the flag didnt cause this. People caused this. Its not the flags fault dont take it out on the flag. If it aint been one thing its been another. All this about the flag people supporting gays. Im not against gays bc I have some in my family. Do I think gays should b allowed to get married. No. Why bc in the bible it doesnt mention adam and steve. Its adam and eve. Its wrong in gods eyes. All this stuff is just going to show that the world is coming to an end. Do I think bad about gays. No im not racist. No but the world better straighten up bc the end is coming.

  • kenewport

    Which Rothschild will be supporting which side in this war?

  • White Rabbitt

    To the Victor goes the spoils and the terms of defeat. The North won and the South lost. Get over it.

  • JOSHUA RAY STARK

    Ya’ll want to move the confederate flag from the South we will have another War with each other SOUTH WILL RISE AGAIN

  • Steve Summers

    Don’t want to be part of the USA, gtfo

  • Michael Garnet

    Good, they can get in line with Texas… No more Federal funds or support!

    • Robert Moldaner

      Maybe you better think before you speak. Where will you get your gasoline for your big fancy cars? Most of the refineries are in Texas and Louisiana. Not to mention come winter with oil and natural gas. Too many of you don’t realize, most of the natural resources in this country are in the South.

  • Matt Pantages

    if you’re truly serious about suceding… then maybe you could start by paying back all of the federal money paid to you for programs like welfare and food stamps.. not to mention 1.2 Billion in federal highway funds..

    !) http://www.charlestonbusiness.com/news/44597-south-carolina-to-receive-1-2b-in-federal-highway-funds

    http://articles.latimes.com/2012/jan/14/nation/la-na-south-carolina-federal-spending-20120114

    “…South Carolina and its residents benefit from government spending, more so than many other states. For every dollar the state pays in federal taxes, it receives $1.35 in federal government benefits. By contrast, California receives only 78 cents for every dollar it pays in taxes.”

    3) http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southeast/2008/09/17/93763.htm

    “…U.S. Sen. Lindsey Graham says South Carolina farmers who have been battling drought conditions are now eligible for low-interest loans after federal agriculture officials declared disaster areas throughout the state.”

    4) http://www.scha.org/news/two-rural-sc-hospitals-receive-federal-grants-to-help-fund-hit

    The Regional Medical Center In Orangeburg and Fairfield Memorial Hospital are among 40 rural health networks across the nation that will share more than $11.9 million to support their adoption of Health Information Technology (HIT) and certified Electronic Health Records (EHR). The funding, announced by HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius, will also help these rural health networks’ participating eligible providers qualify for Medicare and Medicaid EHR incentive payments, administered by the Centers for Medicare &Medicaid Services.”

    so, go on… succede … you’d actually save the rest of the USA a lot of money, and considering how much you already hate blacks and having a black president, that extra money we wouldn’t have to spend on your sorry asses, would direct pay down the debt, and benefit the very people in the rest of the country you claim to hate so much…

    way to show the world what TRUE ‘MURICANS you are…

    idiots..

  • Melinda

    Let them go if they think they can survive on their own.

  • mjh49783ab

    If those peckerwoods wish to secede over this, then I wish them luck. Once they mess that idea up, they’ll have no one to blame but themselves. Somehow, I suspect that they have a long and storied habit of blaming others for their failures, and, when mixed with that racist flag of theirs, they refer to it as their ‘heritage’.

    It is nothing but a culture of failure. Lets see them thrive without their welfare checks and their food stamps. I dare them!

    • David Arnold

      They won’t be able to do it, but if they did, they’d fail miserably and blame Obama, ’cause it CAN’T be their fault.

  • Bill_thompson95

    Let em go…..

  • James

    When is enough, enough?

    There is a lot of talk today about
    America’s flags. Here is a little something to think about.

    Surrender of the United States of
    America

    This

    Is not about some civil rights
    leader. It is about a muslim militant demanding America’s Surrender. (It is
    about control).

    First

    The Confederate flag then the
    American flag then what, Re-Writing history?

    (A flag) ie. Your flags represents
    where

    you are from and who you are, (Your
    Heritage)

    When

    A country takes down its flag on
    demand it is an indication of surrender. Then

    the victor raises their flag
    proclaiming victory and dominance over those who surrender.

    Are

    You ready to surrender your country
    and flag, Constitution and American way of life?

    Are

    You ready to surrender your
    Constitutional and Bill of Rights and become a slave or

    Member of the prevailing government and
    its laws, etc?

    Or

    Are you ready to take a stand for
    your country and rights as the fore-fathers did?

    Jesus Christ is Lord.

    Warning

    Dividing the country racially, recruiting
    terrorists, instilling fear and making demands.

    (All terrorist tactics).

    Building a terrorist army and
    dividing the country racially is the goal. The more you give the more they will
    take. The more they take the closer you are to losing all your rights and
    becoming a slave.

    Louis Farrakhan: “White People do
    not Care about Black People and the American Flag Needs to be Pulled Down”!

    The man is a muslim and a liar. He
    does not care for the people at Metropolitan AME Church in Washington, D.C. or untold
    numbers of people killed in meaningless shootings, but he will use the event to
    promote hate, strife and fear.

    He is a terrorist looking for useful
    idiots.

    He will walk out of the church
    measuring his success by the number of people he

    has stirred up.

    Wake up people this is about
    dividing the country along racial lines and provoking riots,

    hate and killing.

    Terrorism is about hate, fear and
    control.

    And it will not stop until these
    people and the muslims bring down the country and force sharia law and their
    way of life onto it.

    When is enough, enough?

    There is a lot of talk today about
    America’s flags. Here is a little something to

    think about.

    Surrender of the United States of
    America

    This is not about some civil rights
    leader. It is about muslim militants demanding America’s

    Surrender. (It is about terrorism,
    promoting fear and control).

    First

    The Confederate flag and then the
    American flag then what, Re-Writing history?

    (A flag) ie. Your flags represents
    where you

    are from and who you are, (Your
    Heritage)

    When A country takes down its flag
    on demand it is an indication of surrender. Then

    the victor raises their flag
    proclaiming victory and dominance over those who

    surrender.

    Are You

    Ready to surrender your countries
    flag, Constitution and American way of life?

    Are You

    Ready to surrender your
    Constitutional and Bill of Rights and become a slave or a

    member of the prevailing government
    and its laws, etc?

    Or Are

    You ready to take a stand for your
    country and rights as the fore-fathers did?

    Jesus

    Christ is Lord.

  • Siegfried Heydrich

    Oh, yeah . . . like that worked SO well the last time they pulled that stunt.

  • Adrian M. Kleinbergen

    I hope it’s just an emotional “gut” reaction because what they would lose by seceding is far more than they might gain. Lucky they are a coastal state. They won’t have the import problems they would have if they were landlocked.

  • Sam Fletcher

    Someone in South Carolina should check US law. The US Supreme Court after the Civil War ruled in an appealed case that secession is illegal. Anyone trying to do so is subject to arrest.

  • Alan Higginbotham

    Secession doesn’t work. I recommend adopting the Confederate battle flag as the state flag and they’ll kick you out of the union.

  • Dan Rush

    Fred…..the cross flag was the battle flag of the army of Tennessee

  • ikihi

    no one is threatening to secede

  • Jeffrey Gorrin

    31 states have voted overwhelmingly to keep marriage between one man and one woman. The US Constitution gives the states the right to make this decision without interference from the federal government. The Supreme Court has no right to make laws. These four arrogant, power hungry, lawyers on the Supreme Court have decided that they can write new laws that directly violate the laws passed overwhelmingly by the people of those 31 states. This was an illegal,
    unconstitutional, and outright criminal act and must not be tolerated. If we
    let this criminal judgement stand, we become subjects of a kingdom ruled by 5
    arrogant lawyers and our freedom is gone – WE ARE NOW SUBJECTS OF A
    DICTATORSHIP that does not resemble the democratic republic America once was.
    Seceding from is the union is the only course of action we have left to regain
    our freedom.
    I am ready to move my family to any state that has the courage to secede and take back it’s right to be governed by “we the people.” I firmly believe that if one state secedes, many will follow. We could use the original US Constitution as the law of our land.I am sick of the tea party being called uneducated and racist. My wife has two masters degrees and I graduated cum laud with a bachelors degree. My wife is fluent in 4 languages. we are proud to be in the tea party. We have had several black guest speaker at our ralleys and we have treated them with great love and respect. I see almost 100% of today’s racism coming from the liberal, democrat party. One of many samples of democrat racism is that mister Obama has made the most racist, hateful racebaters his closest pal. Can we all say HIPOCRICY!!!

  • Jeffrey Gorrin

    31 states have voted overwhelmingly to keep marriage between one man and
    one woman. The US Constitution gives the states the right to make this
    decision without interference from the federal government. The Supreme
    Court has no right to make laws. These five arrogant, power hungry,
    lawyers on the Supreme Court have decided that they can write new laws
    that directly violate the laws passed overwhelmingly by the people of
    those 31 states. This was an illegal, unconstitutional, and outright criminal act and must not be tolerated. If we let this criminal judgement stand, we become subjects of a kingdom ruled by 5 arrogant lawyers and our freedom is gone – WE ARE NOW SUBJECTS OF A DICTATORSHIP that does not resemble the democratic republic America once was. Seceding from is the union is the only course of action we have left to regain our freedom.
    I
    am ready to move my family to any state that has the courage to secede
    and take back it’s right to be governed by “we the people.” I firmly
    believe that if one state secedes, many will follow. We could use the
    original US Constitution as the law of our land.I am sick of the tea
    party being called uneducated and racist. My wife has two masters
    degrees and is
    fluent in 4 languages, and I graduated cum laud with a bachelors degree. We are proud to be in the tea party. We have had
    several black guest speaker at our ralleys and we have treated them with
    great love and respect. I see almost 100% of today’s racism coming from
    the liberal, democrat party. One of many samples of democrat racism is
    that mister Obama has made the most racist, hateful racebater, Al Sharpton, his
    closest pal. Can we all say HIPOCRICY!!!

  • Brandon

    How funny…everyone’s undies in a twist over a flag that offends them….prior to a week or 2 ago no one gave 2 shits…but they ahve all been INSTRUCTED to be offended..and so like good little sheep..they are offended..

  • webone

    Actually there were 2 national flags of the Confederacy that included the southern cross… The one everyone is complaining about is the flag for the army of Tennessee.

  • Anthony Guastella

    Good for those Representatives. I find the Governor and all the corrupt politicians behavior abhorrent. Takes a tragedy and makes it a cause celebre for purposes not yet manifested. Nothing was ever said, then a sad incident happens and all of a sudden this is a problem, how worthless these people really are. Hopefully the pubic will not stand for their communistic behavior. Invidious creatures one and all.

  • Glenn Dupuis

    I got a kick out of a conversation I had with a staffer in James Clyburn’s office one day when I posed a question about the congressional black caucus.First thing he said was you had it for 200 years now it’s our turn.Then I told him I had been born and raised in Ohio.He then tried to make me a KKK member saying that was the home of the klan.You just have some folks you can’t talk to no matter how you might try to reason.So the issues of the past will be just like JFK’s death.Only God knows all the answers,but America has decided His viewpoint no longer matters.

  • Ima Hater

    Can someone please tell me what the DOWNSIDE to this is? This state is an EMBARRASSMENT. Cancers are better CUT OUT AND REMOVED!

  • cmblake6

    It was not about racism in the beginning at all! It was about States Rights. The slavery thing happened at President Lincoln’s wife’s insistence. There were slaves in the north as well, but you don’t hear about that. It is Heritage, not hate.

  • Patricia Robertson

    When those in these past had slaves they lived under a myth that they weren’t human beings but animals even though they loved them just like they love their white females and male. They trust them to nurse their babies, cook their foods, etc, and be their bed mates whenever they needed them. Yet they felt these people who skin was dark and hair was nappy, could not have the privilege to learn to read or write because they were afraid of what it might do to them. They knew once these dark skin people who they called animals learn to read and write better than the whites, they would refuse to be slaves and realize they are human beings too. They were right, and the republicans and teapublicans have been living that nightmare every since. They have found that the trouble with myths is they actually are lies made up because people are afraid to face the truth, they were wrong to try to keep people as slaves. Now they are so afraid that the president before he leave office will some how put the republican and teaparty race in slavery. That is a fear they go to bed with and wake up every day, 24/7.

  • NickDavisGB

    Haha, bet they’ll be crying in the mud, when the border and services are closed.

  • K.J. Pierson

    How about taking that support and removing the racist moron in charge in charleston, along with the political opportunist haley

  • Fast ED

    They Can Repay Their Part Of The National Debt And We Will Be Taking Anything Built Or Funded With Federal Funds Until That’s Paid Back Also…

  • Charlie3

    Do they really think that’s a threat?

  • etomi .

    Well, BYE!

  • Joel

    forget the flag… I would love to see South Carolina try to secede…

  • Monte Tolley

    Why

  • Ernest Blackwell

    The Sons of Confederate veterans is not a political group. Their organizations constitution prohibits them from getting directly involved with politics. The are the largest historical preservation society in the country. Their soul purpose is to preserve and protect the true history of the Confederacy. If your going to write it then try to research it first.

  • Charles Nesbitt

    We don’t need to explain anything. The naacp breaks the law by going into black churches and telling them how to break the law to get over on Whitey, cause rear end auto accidents, drive without insurance at our expense, and a thousand other things. The naacp is breaking the law in three ways: Teaching violence, law breaking, and breaking the law of the land of separation of church and state.

  • LMW1

    Bye! Oh, by the way, all those welfare checks from the federal government that you need to keep the doors open will stop forthwith. Write when you (finally) get work.

  • BobbyDP

    And take Florida and Texas with you.

  • BobbyDP

    The war was lost, too many fighters with a Godly purpose to have lost that war with a bunch of evil devil worshipers. That flag symbolizes the evil wishes of those desiring to carry out the work of Satan. They can take it with them an hang it wherever. But for a government for the people and by the people that WON that war. It should not be displayed on the government’s grounds.If they had WON the war, that would be different.

  • Sarah Jones Geer

    Bye, Felicia. Don’t let the door hit your taker-of-federal-dollars ass on the way out of the union. South Carolina ranks in the top ten states most dependent on federal dollars. They’re actually NUMBER ONE on most federal money in versus taxpayer money out (They get $5.38 for every $1 of taxpayer revenue they generate). They also rank dead last on education according to the Report Card on American Education. All these nimrods threatening to secede have no clue what they’d have to then accomplish as a nation- get their own military, pay for their own infrastructure, can’t leave the area without a passport, have to pay import taxes on all goods.

    Never mind that if you actually READ the documents each state delivered as their intention of secession in the Civil War and the description of the development of the Confederate battle flag, it’s clear it WAS about slavery- Southern apologetics and attempt to revise history don’t hold up to scrutiny.

  • David Mercer

    It’s amazing how little people actually know about what really happened to cause the war.

  • Pingback: Secession Seems To Be The Hardest Word | Freedom76.net()

  • GetRhonda

    The Civil War was a LAND GRAB. The Rebels were the good guys. How dare that governor let those buffoons change history to agree that it was slavery. It wasn’t and she’s a buffoon for letting this happen.

  • alrotundo

    If South Carolina did leave the union, it would raise the average IQ for the country. (they’re at 89 – that’s a full 20 points lower than New York State. http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/P40ztjVTZRY/maxresdefault.jpg#republicans%20vs%20democrats%20iq%20chart%201280×720

  • Raphael ben Avraham

    A number of states need to secede and kick the left out so we who want to live in freedom can. Hopefully SC will lead the way.

  • Thomas

    History always repeats itself…. always has. Always will. Can’t and won’t stop it. Too many idiots on both sides. All we can do as a nation is pray for our country.

  • darkinvader doomirken

    Remove Google plus remove twitter remove Facebook and remove DMCA and remove eula and remove nsa and remove the safe harbor worshippers and it’s terrible acts and remove apple technology and remove Skype and remove Microsoft technology and remove netflix and remove DRM and remove Hulu and remove red box and remove the ndaa and remove all copyright acts and remove all the utility bills and insurance commercials and remove all the taxes and fees and remove mpaa and remove riaa and remove IRS and Remove Fbi and remove Sony and remove ACTA and remove COPPA and remove AOL and remove ACA and remove Verizon and remove AT&T and remove etrust and remove FOIA and remove adobe and remove Spotify and remove TPP and remove governments and remove congresses and remove FDA and remove DEA and remove ACLU and remove verisign and remove Kindle and remove nook and remove Mozilla Firefox and remove safari too and save the link from the FCC and remove TRUSTe and remove EME and remove PPACA and remove Obamacare and remove HIPAA and remove CETA and remove TIPP and remove TPP and remove TTIP and remove TISA and remove TTP and remove RTI and remove CALOPPA and remove the AFT and remove ATF and remove the Sat ACT and let tenants live in the properties for free without paying rent also let people take 10000000000 books home